# A friend may be getting himself into something he may not like **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 20, 2012, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591 "2012-11-20T06:41:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/61 "2012-11-20T20:43:13Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > And I’m still not sure what you meant by your comments about American girls in your OP. My mistake; I should have said something like, “a relationship involving a girl at a great distance.” ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/62 "2012-11-20T20:48:29Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > He found out that she was pregnant in October. She gave birth a couple of weeks ago, in early November. And he’s already got the results of a paternity test, on a baby less than 20 days old? That’s quick. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/63 "2012-11-20T20:55:50Z")
> [@Eliahna](#): > > And he’s already got the results of a paternity test, on a baby less than 20 days old? That’s quick. No. The baby is not his; that is certain. At the time of conception, and for a few months before and after, he was here. He did not go and visit during that time, nor did she visit up here. He knows it is not his baby, and so does the mother. ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/64 "2012-11-20T21:10:03Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > It just seems to me to have happened too quickly. If they had been planning since (say) last August for all this to happen in, say, September of 2013, that would be one thing; but he got the news in October and is planning to be there shortly after New Year’s. > > He is getting the required American paperwork together as quickly as he can, and that seems to be going smoothly, if a little slowly, as might be expected. First, he can’t get the paperwork together. SHE has to. He can help her of course, but SHE has to be the petitioner. And if she’s unemployed or underemployed, she’s going to need to find someone to co-sponsor him financially. I won’t get into too many specifics at the risk of derailing the thread, but there’s no way he’s going to get his visa before the New Year. The processing time right now for fiance visas is five months. Sure, he can come here on a tourist visa, but he must NOT come here on a tourist visa with the intent to marry her. It’s considered visa fraud and will get him in BIG trouble and possibly deported and banned from the country for ten years. ---
**Author:** ![Catfood\_Purrito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Catfood\_Purrito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catfood_Purrito)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/65 "2012-11-20T21:31:30Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > A rape is a rape. She chose not to report it, so she has reasons to not consider it a rape as per her description. By calling it “someone forced himself upon her” I would have to assume not a rape, but cheating/consensual. What the hell kind of crazy moon logic is this? If it was forced, it is by definition not consensual. The only part of the story I find at all troubling is the fact that she didn’t tell her boyfriend about her pregnancy until so late in the game, but people behave in weird and illogical ways sometimes, especially in the wake of a traumatic experience. A pregnancy makes it even more traumatic. Maybe she was planning on giving the child up for adoption. Maybe she was in denial. My sister didn’t tell anyone she was pregnant until the day my nephew was born, including her boyfriend (who was not the father). When I asked her why, she said she just didn’t want to believe it was happening to her, and she just avoided thinking about it. Her pregnancy wasn’t even a result of rape. I don’t find the situation terribly implausible…my own marriage is the result of a multi-year long distance relationship similar to the one described by the OP. If at some point before I moved I had been raped and become pregnant, my boyfriend (now husband) would have believed me without a second thought, and things may have progressed in a similar way. I could even see myself not telling him for a long time because, like my sister, I also have a tendency to avoid dealing with and thinking about unpleasant things until forced to. When I was raped, I didn’t report it, and I didn’t tell any of my family, because it was painful and I just wanted it to just go away, so I didn’t think about it. Has it occurred to any of you that maybe she’s going through a difficult time, so she wants him there for the emotional support, and he’s going because he loves her? Why assume the worst of this person you don’t even know? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/66 "2012-11-20T21:42:53Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > First, he can’t get the paperwork together. SHE has to. He can help her of course, but SHE has to be the petitioner. And if she’s unemployed or underemployed, she’s going to need to find someone to co-sponsor him financially. I won’t get into too many specifics at the risk of derailing the thread, but there’s no way he’s going to get his visa before the New Year. The processing time right now for fiance visas is five months. Sure, he can come here on a tourist visa, but he must NOT come here on a tourist visa with the intent to marry her. It’s considered visa fraud and will get him in BIG trouble and possibly deported and banned from the country for ten years. Thanks–I am unaware of procedures for immigrating to the US, so ignorance fought. It sounds to me like he may be here a bit longer than he thinks. Thanks again! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/67 "2012-11-20T22:19:05Z")
I think my biggest concern with this situation would be making sure that he understands that with a baby involved, he might be tying himself to a woman that he really doesn’t know all that well for the next 18 years. There does seem to be a lot of potential for this to blow up in his face, with no easy escape routes for him. I think that would be what I might discuss with him - make sure he understands what he’s getting into, and how hard it might be to get back out of again. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/68 "2012-11-20T22:21:10Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > Can you provide a cite for this? This is roughly 0.02% of all the women in the United States or about 2 out of 10,000 women including the elderly and children. This is staggering. I believe you,no reason not to, but would like to also see where you are getting information. \*\*MsWhatsit \*\*provided one that supports the raw numbers. Here are a couple of articles that add some detail to the numbers and address the specific question of paternity rights after rape. [The Legitimate Children of Rape](http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/08/the-legitimate-children-of-rape.html) [Parental Rights For Rapists](http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2008/04/10/parental-rights-for-rapists) It is staggering, especially if you only count women of child bearing age who aren’t on birth control. ---
**Author:** ![Q.N.Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3da27b/32.png) [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/69 "2012-11-20T22:24:53Z")
You need to keep in mind–the rape story may be something he and she concocted together. He may know that she had sex with another man, and not care, but wants to save face with his friends and family. If they’ve been dating for a long time, she may not want to let people know that she has sex outside the relationship, either. You really can’t be sure your friend is being bamboozled. He may be in on it. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/70 "2012-11-20T22:40:03Z")
> [@Catfood\_Purrito](#): > > Why assume the worst of this person you don’t even know? Cause that’s the way it plays out 99.99999% of the time. IME. ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/71 "2012-11-20T22:44:50Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Thanks–I am unaware of procedures for immigrating to the US, so ignorance fought. It sounds to me like he may be here a bit longer than he thinks. Thanks again! Not a problem 🙂 I’ve been through the process so I know how much of a pain it is. If he’s adamant about this, I’d recommend you steer both him and his girlfriend to [this website.](http://www.visajourney.com) It gives you a complete rundown of what needs to be done, gives you all the forms and tips for making sure you do it right and has a very supportive and helpful community of others who have done the process. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/72 "2012-11-20T22:49:28Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > ../snip/ > > \*\*My buddy says that’s fine, the baby is his (even though tests prove that it is not), and he will marry the girl and treat the child as his own. > \*\* > [@Spoons](#): > > No. The baby is not his; that is certain. At the time of conception, and for a few months before and after, he was here. He did not go and visit during that time, nor did she visit up here. He knows it is not his baby, and so does the mother. She had a paternity test but not for your friend’s paternity? What tests are you referring to? It sounds like their relationship’s gone from 0-100 in a matter of weeks and I’d wonder what kept them apart for so long but is suddenly not an issue? Perhaps she’s ‘above his weight class’ somehow - maybe looks or social status or money, but this event has brought her down to his level? If you care to keep your friendship, it’d behoove you to keep your questions to yourself. Shouldn’t be a problem for long, as he’s moving away and becoming a family man; he’ll be a warm acquaintance from afar sooner than you realize. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/73 "2012-11-20T22:51:57Z")
Not really intending to derail the whole paternity/baby/adoption/prenuptual situation, but I kind of slammed on the brakes when I got to the big, honkin’ elephant in the room: “A guy from Canada wants to move to the US and marry a US Citizen, and they both want to live in the US.” My experience, from knowing several mixed-citizenship couples, is that this is not the garden path they think they are traipsing down. I know one couple who weren’t able to live in the same country for a year or two, and another who have been unable to co-nation for five or six years. Although this may just be bad luck, planning and paperwork on their parts, it may well be an issue worth taking a serious look at. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/74 "2012-11-20T22:59:47Z")
October to January is hardly an insanely quick move. When a couple decides “now’s the time” to become a family, it often happens pretty quickly. In any case, if you had a child you intended to raise as your own, wouldn’t you want to be there for every minute of it? > [@Q.N.Jones](#): > > You need to keep in mind–the rape story may be something he and she concocted together. He may know that she had sex with another man, and not care, but wants to save face with his friends and family. If they’ve been dating for a long time, she may not want to let people know that she has sex outside the relationship, either. > > You really can’t be sure your friend is being bamboozled. He may be in on it. This is a very good point…and his being “in on it” doesn’t have to be a fully conscious decision on his part. Lots of people cheat, and lots of people decide to stay together anyway. People have their own little stories they tell each other and themselves, sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/75 "2012-11-20T23:02:28Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > She had a paternity test but not for your friend’s paternity? What tests are you referring to? Yeah, that’s weird. I assumed it was possible that he could be the father due to timing, so if that can’t be possible, why on earth would she have the baby - or boyfriend - tested? Lack of telling about the pregnancy until the last second would still be a big red flag for me, at least in terms of maturity and/or emotional stability. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/76 "2012-11-20T23:21:09Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > She had a paternity test but not for your friend’s paternity? What tests are you referring to? I don’t know. I’m relying on what Buddy has said–things like, “The tests have shown…” I haven’t asked what kind of tests. Maybe I should. > [@](#): > > If you care to keep your friendship, it’d behoove you to keep your questions to yourself. Shouldn’t be a problem for long, as he’s moving away and becoming a family man; he’ll be a warm acquaintance from afar sooner than you realize. Yes, I’m keeping the heavy and serious questions to myself. Mostly because I value the friendship, but also because my schedule is full and I’ve lately only been able to meet up with him to watch Sunday afternoon football games at the sports bar. Not exactly the kind of place or time for such questions or discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/77 "2012-11-20T23:34:34Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Not really intending to derail the whole paternity/baby/adoption/prenuptual situation, but I kind of slammed on the brakes when I got to the big, honkin’ elephant in the room: “A guy from Canada wants to move to the US and marry a US Citizen, and they both want to live in the US.” > > My experience, from knowing several mixed-citizenship couples, is that this is not the garden path they think they are traipsing down. I know one couple who weren’t able to live in the same country for a year or two, and another who have been unable to co-nation for five or six years. Although this may just be bad luck, planning and paperwork on their parts, it may well be an issue worth taking a serious look at. Yes, and my own feeling is that they would do well to be in a situation where they can see each other more often. Either she moves to Canada or he moves to the US (let’s face it, they’re pretty similar, so there will be little if any culture shock), and they can get to know each other much better than they can through phone calls and week-long visits. I don’t think I’d be quite as concerned if he said something like, “I’m moving down to be near her, and we’ll get to know each other a lot better than we do now; and if marriage seems like a good idea, then we’ll get married, but if not, well, maybe I’ll maybe make a go of things there anyway, or I can always come back to Canada.” That, IMHO, is a reasonable next step. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/78 "2012-11-20T23:40:18Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Yeah, that’s weird. I assumed it was possible that he could be the father due to timing, so if that can’t be possible, why on earth would she have the baby - or boyfriend - tested? > > **Lack of telling about the pregnancy until the last second would still be a big red flag for me, at least in terms of maturity and/or emotional stability**. As I recently learned, there are some women who don’t recognize when they’re pregnant. I won’t say they’re stupid but now that I’ve talked to the mother of my brother’s child, I believe stupid could be the problem for some of them; she didn’t know she was pregnant until she was nearly 5 months along twice. (What can I do, my brother’s a creep who prefers to date women who are slow on the uptake - always has.) ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/79 "2012-11-20T23:49:15Z")
> [@Catfood\_Purrito](#): > > What the hell kind of crazy moon logic is this? If it was forced, it is by definition not consensual. > > The only part of the story I find at all troubling is the fact that she didn’t tell her boyfriend about her pregnancy until so late in the game, but people behave in weird and illogical ways sometimes, especially in the wake of a traumatic experience. A pregnancy makes it even more traumatic. Maybe she was planning on giving the child up for adoption. Maybe she was in denial. My sister didn’t tell anyone she was pregnant until the day my nephew was born, including her boyfriend (who was not the father). When I asked her why, she said she just didn’t want to believe it was happening to her, and she just avoided thinking about it. Her pregnancy wasn’t even a result of rape. > > I don’t find the situation terribly implausible…my own marriage is the result of a multi-year long distance relationship similar to the one described by the OP. If at some point before I moved I had been raped and become pregnant, my boyfriend (now husband) would have believed me without a second thought, and things may have progressed in a similar way. I could even see myself not telling him for a long time because, like my sister, I also have a tendency to avoid dealing with and thinking about unpleasant things until forced to. When I was raped, I didn’t report it, and I didn’t tell any of my family, because it was painful and I just wanted it to just go away, so I didn’t think about it. > > Has it occurred to any of you that maybe she’s going through a difficult time, so she wants him there for the emotional support, and he’s going because he loves her? Why assume the worst of this person you don’t even know? Maybe I didn’t explain my reasoning clearly. If she was raped, she was raped. To most of us, someone forcing himself on someone else IS rape. By her saying that a guy forced himself on her, it sounds like she’s not saying “rape”. Why isn’t she presenting it as “rape”, rather than someone forcing himself on her? Why isn’t she calling it what it supposedly is? The way she has presented it, to me, says that the most likely scenario would be if it were either consensual, or that she was seeing someone else who then forced himself on her (thereby cheating on fiance). Otherwise, I believe she would have told her fiance much sooner than 2 or 3 weeks before having the baby. I can’t think of any other possible reason not to have told him sooner. ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591/80 "2012-11-21T00:04:24Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Yes, and my own feeling is that they would do well to be in a situation where they can see each other more often. Either she moves to Canada or he moves to the US (let’s face it, they’re pretty similar, so there will be little if any culture shock), and they can get to know each other much better than they can through phone calls and week-long visits. Unfortunately, he can’t just move here. One thing I learned during my own experience getting a foreigner here is that the US’s immigration policy is ridiculous. Outside of marriage, it’s nearly impossible to move here legally. His only real option is to find a company that is willing to sponsor him for a work visa, and from what I’ve heard that’s not likely to happen unless he’s got some sort of highly desirable (but difficult to find in the US) skills. I think his best, realistic, bet is to move to BC. I think you said she’s in Portland, OR? I’m in that area too and it’s about a 6 hour drive to Vancouver BC. He could still live in Canada but be at a more manageable distance from her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-may-be-getting-himself-into-something-he-may-not-like/641591.md?page=5)