# A future, 51-star U.S. flag? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 12, 2007, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-future-51-star-u-s-flag/391918 "2007-02-12T20:47:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-future-51-star-u-s-flag/391918/1 "2007-02-12T20:47:24Z")
[http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3\_303.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_303.html) Here are images of two prospective flags: [51st state - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_us_flag) I take issue with his criticism of the 1861 Fort Sumter flag, though. I like it, and even have a replica: [Fort Sumter Flag - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Sumter_Flag) ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-future-51-star-u-s-flag/391918/2 "2007-02-12T21:03:02Z")
As seen in the link, the United States’s proposed design for a 51-star flag is the same as Cecil proposed: alternating rows of nine and eight stars. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-future-51-star-u-s-flag/391918/3 "2007-02-12T21:08:21Z")
[QUOTE=mobo85] As seen in the link, the United States’s proposed design for a 51-star flag is the same as Cecil proposed: alternating rows of nine and eight stars. [/QUOTE] The 51 star design in the Wiki article was designed by Robert Heft in 1958 who was the designer of the 50 star version that we use today. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-future-51-star-u-s-flag/391918/4 "2007-02-13T03:00:29Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] Here are images of two prospective flags: [51st state - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_us_flag) [/QUOTE] That second flag, with the circular star field, makes my eyes bleed. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-future-51-star-u-s-flag/391918/5 "2007-02-13T03:25:19Z")
I like the circlular-star 51 version! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-future-51-star-u-s-flag/391918/6 "2007-02-13T04:54:32Z")
[QUOTE=sub baron] … lookie here for more odd arrangements, as preserved in US stamps: [http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us\_stmp2.jpg](http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us_stmp2.jpg) [/QUOTE] The Fort Sumter flag which so vexed The Master is shown there, too. ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-future-51-star-u-s-flag/391918/7 "2007-02-13T08:46:20Z")
That Fort Sumter flag looks like one of the creepy crawlies from Space Invaders. Ick! I like the circular 51. The 9-8-9-8-9-8 just doesn’t have the right aspect ratio to me. ---
**Author:** ![eamick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c68b51/32.png) [@eamick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eamick)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-future-51-star-u-s-flag/391918/8 "2007-02-13T13:49:09Z")
The reason the flag at Fort Sumter had only 33 stars when there were 34 states is simple. The law (4 USC 2, for the curious) says that the star is added to the flag on the 4th of July after the state’s admission. The 34th state (Kansas) was admitted in January of 1861, and the fort was attacked in April. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-future-51-star-u-s-flag/391918/9 "2007-02-13T15:01:25Z")
Actually, I don’t know that that law was in existence at the time. Lincoln stopped in Philadelphia on his way to his March 4 inauguration, I remember, and took part in a ceremony at Independence Hall at which a new 34-star flag was unveiled. Maybe they were getting a jump on the actual formal admission of Kansas, or maybe the garrison at Ft. Sumter just hadn’t gotten around to sewing another star to their flag. They _did_ have some other things on their minds around then, as I recall… ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-future-51-star-u-s-flag/391918/10 "2007-02-13T15:26:27Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] The Fort Sumter flag which so vexed The Master is shown there, too. [/QUOTE] Vexed. Ha! RR ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-future-51-star-u-s-flag/391918/11 "2007-02-13T17:37:27Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] Actually, I don’t know that that law was in existence at the time. Lincoln stopped in Philadelphia on his way to his March 4 inauguration, I remember, and took part in a ceremony at Independence Hall at which a new 34-star flag was unveiled. Maybe they were getting a jump on the actual formal admission of Kansas, or maybe the garrison at Ft. Sumter just hadn’t gotten around to sewing another star to their flag. They _did_ have some other things on their minds around then, as I recall… [/QUOTE] The code section in question was added as of July 30, 1947, according to [this web site.](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/4/chapters/1/sections/section_2_notes.html). Whether or not there was a similar prior code section, I do not know. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-future-51-star-u-s-flag/391918/12 "2007-02-14T01:28:42Z")
Interesting flag history website, with article on history of the US flag here: [History of the Stars and Stripes (U.S.)](http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-ststr.html) It seems to be the original source for the images in wikipedia ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-future-51-star-u-s-flag/391918/13 "2007-02-14T04:09:32Z")
In the episode “The Royale,” _Star Trek: The Next Generation_ even speculated as to a 52-star flag by 2033 AD: [http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://memory-alpha.org/en/images/thumb/2/24/USA\_flag\_2033-2079.png/200px-USA\_flag\_2033-2079.png&imgrefurl=http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/2033&h=106&w=200&sz=11&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=n7hICenOL8QSuM:&tbnh=55&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3D52-star%2Bflag%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://memory-alpha.org/en/images/thumb/2/24/USA_flag_2033-2079.png/200px-USA_flag_2033-2079.png&imgrefurl=http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/2033&h=106&w=200&sz=11&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=n7hICenOL8QSuM:&tbnh=55&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3D52-star%2Bflag%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-future-51-star-u-s-flag/391918/14 "2007-02-14T12:05:13Z")
I think it is more likely that the next US configuration would consist of 52, rather than 51, states — even if the admitted entity had to be broken in half first. There is no way that one of the bipartisan monopoly holders on government would allow the other to add an extra state to the electoral college. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-future-51-star-u-s-flag/391918/15 "2007-02-14T13:57:56Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] I think it is more likely that the next US configuration would consist of 52, rather than 51, states — even if the admitted entity had to be broken in half first. There is no way that one of the bipartisan monopoly holders on government would allow the other to add an extra state to the electoral college. [/QUOTE] I tend to agree that politics will make addition of states difficult, for much the same reason that addition of representatives to the House is probably out of the question. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-future-51-star-u-s-flag/391918/16 "2007-02-14T16:12:13Z")
[QUOTE=eamick] The reason the flag at Fort Sumter had only 33 stars when there were 34 states is simple. The law (4 USC 2, for the curious) says that the star is added to the flag on the 4th of July after the state’s admission. The 34th state (Kansas) was admitted in January of 1861, and the fort was attacked in April. [/QUOTE] There is also the factor that they wouldn’t have thrown out an otherwise perfectly good flag just because the number of stars was suddenly incorrect. While ceremonially important flags, such as the one on the Capitol, would be changed at once, the normal practice for “everyday” flags is to put the new one up when the old one is worn out. This is frequently addressed specifically in such changes, where the government directive says something along the lines of “change will occur effective XX date or at such time as existing stocks have been used up”. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-future-51-star-u-s-flag/391918/17 "2007-02-15T18:22:24Z")
[QUOTE=Bookkeeper] There is also the factor that they wouldn’t have thrown out **an otherwise perfectly good flag** just because the number of stars was suddenly incorrect. While ceremonially important flags, such as the one on the Capitol, would be changed at once, the normal practice for “everyday” flags is to put the new one up when the old one is worn out. This is frequently addressed specifically in such changes, where the government directive says something along the lines of “change will occur effective XX date or at such time as existing stocks have been used up”. ( **Bolding** mine. – **kd99** ) [/QUOTE] Are you joking?\* Did you even see the picture of that flag? It looks like it’s in terrible shape. “Perfectly good.” :rolleyes: It looks like it’s been involved in a major _battle_, fer Pete’s sake. - 'Cos I know **I** am. 😃