# A Game of Thrones (HBO series) \[SPOILERS\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 17, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955 "2011-01-17T16:36:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/41 "2011-03-02T12:22:16Z")
> [@DeptfordX](#): > > I don’t see that. You could just make a show about the war of the 5 kingdoms with the exiled Targaryens across the sea plotting their return and it would work fine. And you could make a version of LOTR about the fight against Saruman, but it wouldn’t be LOTR. The conflict between Ice (the Others) and Fire is the central story of the book - I mean, it’s the title of the series. Everything else, including the conflict between the various claimants to the throne, is basically the B plot; it’s the setup for the main conflict. I’m sure this will become more obvious if and when the series continues. ---
**Author:** ![DeptfordX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DeptfordX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeptfordX)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/42 "2011-03-02T13:41:42Z")
Yeah, but it’s the B plot that is 90% of the story so far. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/43 "2011-03-02T13:45:55Z")
> [@DeptfordX](#): > > Yeah, but it’s the B plot that is 90% of the story so far. It’s like how the main villain of a television season - like a Buffy Big Bad - only appears in a few episodes at the beginning and middle of the season… but we all know that it is the main villain and that the last few episodes will be spent confronting it. That’s what the Others (and whatever’s behind them) are. Or they’re like the smoke monster on Lost - it hardly appered at all for the first few years, but it was obvious that it lay at the very heart of everything that was going on. ---
**Author:** ![DeptfordX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DeptfordX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeptfordX)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/44 "2011-03-02T14:10:33Z")
Sure when the whole thing is (\*and if \*I know, I know) done it’s going to be a big climax. I still think you could cut out the whole Others, the wall etc etc and still be left with two strong and really good plotlines and maybe that would make more sense if you 're doing a version of the story for tv. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/45 "2011-03-02T14:34:20Z")
I disagree - even without the overall plot arc, the fact that we know that something huge is waiting right below the surface, and that all of these petty games of thrones will be made null and void once winter comes, is a huge part of the story’s charm. Plus, zombies are big these days. No TV producer is going to pass on the chance of putting zombies in their show. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/46 "2011-03-02T15:19:10Z")
Without the others you have to write out Jon Snow. Without him you have to write out like 20 more plot lines. I’ve heard about getting rid of Dorne. I think that’s premature, but maybe that can be done, depending on where Martin wants to go with it. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/47 "2011-03-02T15:42:31Z")
Peronally I have found the Others plotline to be rather boring and far less interesting than the political intrigue that forms the heart of the books so far. They may become important in the later books (assuming we even get them) but the Others don’t really amount to much at this point. Actually I would probably have preferred the series to be a straight historical series without fantasy as IIRC Martin considered doing. Most of the supernatural stuff seems very trite: the Others, Mellisandre , Zombie Cat etc. The dragons are just about the only supernatural theme I like. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/48 "2011-03-02T19:44:01Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Peronally I have found the Others plotline to be rather boring and far less interesting than the political intrigue that forms the heart of the books so far. They may become important in the later books (assuming we even get them) but the Others don’t really amount to much at this point. > > Actually I would probably have preferred the series to be a straight historical series without fantasy as IIRC Martin considered doing. Most of the supernatural stuff seems very trite: the Others, Mellisandre , Zombie Cat etc. The dragons are just about the only supernatural theme I like. I could almost have said this myself. But Martin obviously has other plans - now, if he’d only buckle down and _write_, dammit! ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/49 "2011-03-03T07:31:18Z")
This sounds like an extraordinarily complicated story. Is there much point in watching it if you haven’t read the books? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/50 "2011-03-03T08:04:16Z")
I guess we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/51 "2011-03-03T11:49:22Z")
> [@jellyblue](#): > > This sounds like an extraordinarily complicated story. Is there much point in watching it if you haven’t read the books? I’m sure they will have to leave stuff out, but I don’t think HBO will air something that suffers due to extreme cuts. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/52 "2011-03-03T14:53:41Z")
> [@jellyblue](#): > > This sounds like an extraordinarily complicated story. Is there much point in watching it if you haven’t read the books? I HAVE read the books so I can tell you that it IS an incredibly complicated story, with about 3 overarching plots (the Big Supernatural Bad, the Game of Thrones itself, and what’s going on across the ocean) and at least 5 subplots in each of those. But it’s not CONFUSING, as such. I would assume that HBO wouldn’t make a series that didn’t make any sense, so I would assume that while the overall story is complicated, they’re not going to be cutting plot points that are necessary to following the story. ETA: Even more to the complicated part- they’re still being written. Martin has at least two more books to go (AT LEAST!) before he reaches anything that even looks like a natural endpoint. I can only imagine that if Martin doesn’t manage to finish the series while HBO has episodes still in production on the currently published wordcount, that HBO will have to make up an ending. Martin certainly doesn’t seem to be pushing himself to finish anything… ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/53 "2011-03-03T17:11:38Z")
[Here’s a fun little promo game that HBO just released.](http://itsh.bo/hT3CEd) You’ll need a key to solve the puzzle, and here it is: [http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Gallery/Entry/2383/](http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Gallery/Entry/2383/) Once you solve it, you can see a small scene. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/54 "2011-03-03T18:09:50Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > [Here’s a fun little promo game that HBO just released.](http://itsh.bo/hT3CEd) > > You’ll need a key to solve the puzzle, and here it is: [http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Gallery/Entry/2383/](http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Gallery/Entry/2383/) > > Once you solve it, you can see a small scene. Is [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7WlDjOicFg)the scene? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/55 "2011-03-03T18:16:22Z")
I think the complicated plots lend themselves well to a television series. It’s basically a soap opera. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/56 "2011-03-03T19:06:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think the complicated plots lend themselves well to a television series. It’s basically a soap opera. With a LOT of killing and dying. And dragons. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/57 "2011-03-03T19:08:08Z")
I ran through the books in about a week several months ago. Bit by bit it’s a very entertaining story that keeps you reading, but stepping back and taking the aerial view the elaborate plot lines and story lines are (at this point) a huge tangled mess IMO. This is not too surprising as he never had a grand scheme for the book(s), as they grew in popularity he just kept writing more and more. One thing I like about the books is that the characters are far more “real” in terms of character development vs the typical protagonists in sword and sorcery fiction. Being rigidly anything is punished. Nominally “good guys” who are stupid and/or naive die quite readily, they don’t get rescued by eagles or dwarfs, and bad guys who are canny survive. Trying to include everything in the sprawling story is impossible. The plot needs a good bikini wax if it’s going to be acceptable TV fare. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Righteous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Dr.Righteous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Righteous)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/58 "2011-03-03T19:20:06Z")
Thought I’d post this here… George R. R. Martin says [the next book will be out July 12](http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html). I know, he’s said stuff before… I only report the fact, I do not pass any sort of judgment. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/59 "2011-03-03T19:31:43Z")
> [@Dr.Righteous](#): > > Thought I’d post this here… George R. R. Martin says [the next book will be out July 12](http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html). I know, he’s said stuff before… I only report the fact, I do not pass any sort of judgment. I read this as pressure from the publisher to have the next book out in time to get sales hype from the HBO series. They set the date, not Martin. Martin himself says it isn’t done, only that it’s “close”. If it isn’t finished yet, it still has to be edited, typeset, printed, distributed, etc. The editing alone of a 1200 page book means I doubt it will be in stores this summer. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/60 "2011-03-03T20:06:53Z")
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