# A Game of Thrones (HBO series) \[SPOILERS\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 17, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955 "2011-01-17T16:36:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/121 "2011-03-23T18:39:42Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > May I ask that, rather than have posts which are entirely spoilered, we all at least include a word or two as to what it’s about? The identity of Jon Snow’s parents. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/122 "2011-03-23T18:48:56Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > May I ask that, rather than have posts which are entirely spoilered, we all at least include a word or two as to what it’s about? Sorry. The state of speculation about the series is, if anything, more convoluted and longer than the series itself. There are pitfall arguments around every corner over things like Jon Snow’s real parentage or if Melisandre (the Red Priestess) is really what she says she is. It’s worse than Tolkien fandom, really…there are really only two BIG arguments in that: do balrogs have wings? and what is Tom Bombadil? Song of Ice and Fire fandom has DOZENS of these huge speculative arguments going on. ETA: Of course, Tolkien was much more forthcoming about a lot of things in his subcreation than Martin is, too. We have letters, notes, proto-chapters, HOMES, etc, in addition to the Hobbit, the trilogy and the Silmarillion. Martin dribs and drabs little pieces of information occasionally on his blog (most of which lately has been “I’m working on it! I’m working on it!”). ---
**Author:** ![Spectralist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Spectralist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectralist)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/123 "2011-03-23T18:52:35Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > If he was lying, Jon OS the heir to the seven kingdoms, it matters. I don’t see how that would matter. No one will care. Viserys was the rightful heir, no one cared. Dany is the rightful heir, no one cares. Stannis could be seen as the rightful heir, no one cares. Especially with the chaotic state the realm is in by the end of Feast. The person to take the throne will be the person with the biggest army, best political manoeuvring, or some combination of the two. I don’t see how Jon having a bit of Targaryan blood in him would matter at all. It won’t grant him an army. His Stark blood would be more likely to do that, if anything, and he turned down that when he had the opportunity. At best his Targaryan blood might give him some influence with Dany, but even then probably only if he stays at the wall or operates under her. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/124 "2011-03-23T18:56:04Z")
> [@Spectralist](#): > > I don’t see how that would matter. No one will care. > > I don’t see how Jon having a bit of Targaryan blood in him would matter at all. It won’t grant him an army. His Stark blood would be more likely to do that, if anything, and he turned down that when he had the opportunity. At best his Targaryan blood might give him some influence with Dany, but even then probably only if he stays at the wall or operates under her. Unless Targaryen blood is needed to control the dragons. I seem to remember some speculation that someone else in the series still has Targaryen blood (can’t remember who, though), and that there will therefore be three dragon-masters: Dany, Jon and the third person (Tyrion?). Three Targaryens for three dragons. Sorry, folks…I can’t even vaguely describe it without at least putting speculative thoughts in your heads which will spoil events in the books. Oh, and truthfully, I think the Others will be a bigger problem in the near future than anarchy in Westeros…which is where my spoiler discussion comes in. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/125 "2011-03-23T19:07:14Z")
> [@Spectralist](#): > > I don’t see how Jon having a bit of Targaryan blood in him would matter at all. It won’t grant him an army. His Stark blood would be more likely to do that, if anything, and he turned down that when he had the opportunity. At best his Targaryan blood might give him some influence with Dany, but even then probably only if he stays at the wall or operates under her. Targaryans also seem to be the only ones that can control dragons, so I guess it could be relevant for that reason. In anycase, its pretty clear that being on the Watch disqualifies you from doing much else, so he’s not going to do anything unless the Wall falls and the Watch is disbanded. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/126 "2011-03-23T22:28:37Z")
> [@Spectralist](#): > > I don’t see how that would matter. No one will care. Dorne would care. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/127 "2011-03-23T22:49:27Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Even if he is R and L’s kid, he’s still a bastard. We don’t know that. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/128 "2011-04-12T04:23:47Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Targaryans also seem to be the only ones that can control dragons, so I guess it could be relevant for that reason. In anycase, its pretty clear that being on the Watch disqualifies you from doing much else, so he’s not going to do anything unless the Wall falls and the Watch is disbanded. Ahem. See post 120. Here’s a long NYT article on the _Game of Thrones_ miniseries: [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/10/arts/television/game-of-thrones-on-hbo-from-george-r-r-martin-novels.html?\_r=1&scp=1&sq=game%20thrones&st=cse](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/10/arts/television/game-of-thrones-on-hbo-from-george-r-r-martin-novels.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=game%20thrones&st=cse) And an earlier NYT interview with GRRM: [His Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy: George R. R. Martin Talks 'Game of Thrones' - The New York Times](http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/01/his-beautiful-dark-twisted-fantasy-george-r-r-martin-talks-game-of-thrones/?scp=2&sq=game%20thrones&st=cse) ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/129 "2011-04-12T05:32:03Z")
> [@Ura-Maru](#): > > I’m not a fan of Sandor’s makeup. I know it’s a TV show, and they can’t afford to do Two-Face effect from _ **The Dark Knight** _, (exactly what he should look like) but what he’s got in the show doesn’t really look that bad. He’s supposed to be DISFIGURED, not have a Zuko-style angst scar. > > Actually, while this was probably inevitable in a TV show, amost everyone is too good looking. Not just Tyrion, (Dinklage is short, sure, but he’s still pretty handsome) but everyone. Jamie, Cercei, and Dany are supposed to be beautiful enough to give them real power from that alone. They’re still beautiful, but they don’t really stand out from the rest of the cast. There’s always going to be something to nitpick. I watched the first 14 mins and already I thought (not really spoilers, but just in case someone is being anal): [spoiler]- Robb should be burlier than Jon - Arya is nowhere near horsefaced - Cat looks older than she is described in the book[/spoiler] But I’ve decided not to care. There’s no way a TV show can get everything exactly right, and on the whole it looks excellent. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/130 "2011-04-12T05:41:58Z")
I thought the first 15 minutes were actually pretty good and went by too fast. It would be all but impossible to render everything perfectly, and perfect physical casting is not something I would look for anyway. At least they got the perfect actor for Tyrion (my favorite character). I was very pleased with what I saw and think HBO has another winner. I’m just going to enjoy the show for what it is and not constantly try to compare it with every detail of the book. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/131 "2011-04-12T06:05:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m just going to enjoy the show for what it is and not constantly try to compare it with every detail of the book. My thoughts exactly. I’ve been rereading the series in preparation for A Dance With Dragons (although half of me is wondering if I’m jinxing the whole thing by assuming the July release date is for real.) I’m not sure if I’m more excited about the TV series or the new book. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/132 "2011-04-12T06:43:43Z")
Incidentally, Variety and the Hollywood Reporter have both posted excellent reviews of the series (or at least the first 6 episodes). ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/133 "2011-04-12T14:21:00Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > But I’ve decided not to care. There’s no way a TV show can get everything exactly right, and on the whole it looks excellent. What kind of thinking is that? This is the Internet! THE INTERNET! For Christ’s sake, throw a pie or start talking about how it’s a gay lame pile of fail! Anyway, as anti-Internet as it might be you’ve definitely got the right attitude. Fact of the matter is that nothing is going to match whats in everyone’s heads - or even come close. That’s the nature of everyone having to invent the look of things in their own heads. We know the story is good and from what’s been seen so far it looks like there isn’t going to be any huge changes for the sake of huge changes. So that’s good. And as far as Jon’s parentage… [Spoiler]It’s totally R&L. And Jon wouldn’t necessarily be a bastard - we don’t know if they got married or not. Hell, someone still around could have been a witness to it, someone who is seen as almost inerrantly honorbound like Bertram. Does it matter? Maybe, maybe not. Even if it doesn’t matter it could just be seen as a tragic missed opportunity.[/spoiler] -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/134 "2011-04-12T14:23:24Z")
However, from looking at a review there will be two episodes directed by Tim Van Patten. So, you know, keep your Master Ninja THEEEEEME SONG MP3s ready -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/135 "2011-04-12T15:00:38Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > And as far as Jon’s parentage… > > [Spoiler]It’s totally R&L. And Jon wouldn’t necessarily be a bastard - we don’t know if they got married or not. Hell, someone still around could have been a witness to it, someone who is seen as almost inerrantly honorbound like Bertram. > > Does it matter? Maybe, maybe not. Even if it doesn’t matter it could just be seen as a tragic missed opportunity.[/spoiler] > > -Joe The crannogman Howland Reed knows all. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/136 "2011-04-12T15:02:42Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > The crannogman Howland Reed knows all. Ah right, it’s been so long I couldn’t remember the exact specifics. Since he hasn’t appeared I had even less chance of actually remembering him. I wonder if the Westeros version of an inbred deep-bayou Cajun’s word would be worth much? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/137 "2011-04-12T15:10:19Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Ah right, it’s been so long I couldn’t remember the exact specifics. Since he hasn’t appeared I had even less chance of actually remembering him. > > I wonder if the Westeros version of an inbred deep-bayou Cajun’s word would be worth much? > > -Joe He’s not just some swamprat. He’s Lord of Greywater Watch and his family is one of the Houses of the North. He’s the Stark vassal ruling the Neck. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/138 "2011-04-12T15:12:11Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > He’s not just some swamprat. He’s Lord of Greywater Watch and his family is one of the Houses of the North. He’s the Stark vassal ruling the Neck. I know that, and while I see a Stark taking what he has to say for the truth, I’m not sure I see others being so credulous. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/139 "2011-04-12T15:17:11Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > I know that, and while I see a Stark taking what he has to say for the truth, I’m not sure I see others being so credulous. > > -Joe You have a point, but that would be true in the current political climate of Westeros whether it’s Howland Reed or Stannis Baratheon…nobody trusts anybody of any other faction at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955/140 "2011-04-13T01:15:56Z")
Dorne’s actively trying to get a Targaryen on the Throne. They would care about Jon. Not that I think Jon would be amenable to being that pawn, but they’d want to use him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-hbo-series-spoilers/567955.md?page=8)