# A Game of Thrones (No Spoilers Please) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 13, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-no-spoilers-please/492915 "2009-04-13T03:55:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-no-spoilers-please/492915/1 "2009-04-13T03:55:25Z")
I’ve heard a lot about this book and I’m looking for opinions about it. Is it anything like Lord of the Rings? Does the author go off on tangents that are only barely related to the plot? I couldn’t finish LOTR for that reason. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-no-spoilers-please/492915/2 "2009-04-13T04:15:06Z")
It’s pretty much NOTHING like LOTR. There’s very little filler…everything that happens has a purpose and ties in somewhere (sometimes in a later volume). Now, there are tangents all over the place (the book is structured as a series of character viewpoint narratives and the action switches between viewpoints every chapter), but they’re not filler or barely related. It’s ALL related, even things that you will think don’t have anything to do with anything else. Remember, also, that this is a series…there are currently four volumes and another one that’s supposed to come out sometime in the near future (HA!), and that future one isn’t the last. There may be loose ends now, but knowing Martin, they’ll all be tied up nice and neat. Maybe not in the way we want them to be, but Martin doesn’t do fanservice in this series, believe me. I don’t THINK this is a spoiler (it’s too general for that)…don’t expect ANY of your first impressions (except possibly for one or two) of any of the characters to hold through the series. Martin is VERY good at giving us a slanted first impression through one character viewpoint and then letting us see another facet of that character through either their own or another character’s viewpoint. What you think you know about any character in this series will often turn out to be wrong (or at least not complete). ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-no-spoilers-please/492915/3 "2009-04-13T04:33:16Z")
It’s a great series and I highly recommend reading it. It’s less magicky-fantasy and more “real” fantasy\*, in that it deals less with the unlikely hero rising above all challenges and such, and more with these 5 major families that are embroiled in politics and war. Also, as **jayjay** was saying, you often read about characters from one point of view and you start hating them, but then later read about them from a different point of view and realize what the impetus behind previous actions may have been and you start liking them. It’s all very well done, imo. Lke I said, great series, definitely give it a chance \*yes, I realize “real” fantasy sounds odd, but I don’t realy know how to describe it. ---
**Author:** ![Spectralist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Spectralist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectralist)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-no-spoilers-please/492915/4 "2009-04-13T04:57:31Z")
> [@Xan](#): > > Is it anything like Lord of the Rings? Does the author go off on tangents that are only barely related to the plot? I couldn’t finish LOTR for that reason. Sort of… and not really. While the book has a background plot most of the writing isn’t really about the plot. It’s about the characters and the story kind of follows them around while only barely progressing any sort of overall plot, however the world develops around the characters and serves as more of a plot then the actual plot. Assuming there even is a plot, a decent argument could be made that what appears to be the main plot of the series wont really be. That probably sounds more scattered then it would if i weren’t avoiding spoilers. But what i’m trying to say is that while LOTR has a plot: destroy the ring. A Song of Ice and Fire doesn’t really have a plot in the same way. Its more like it has 3-4 main plots and each point of view character has their own storyline thats fits into one or more of them in varying degrees. But the story never really goes off on irrelevant tangents. At least not until Book 4 anyway, and that might build into something relevant later. ---
**Author:** ![Omi\_no\_Kami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Omi\_no\_Kami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omi_no_Kami)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-no-spoilers-please/492915/5 "2009-04-13T05:59:08Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I don’t THINK this is a spoiler (it’s too general for that)…don’t expect ANY of your first impressions (except possibly for one or two) of any of the characters to hold through the series. Out of curiosity, did you have any specific exceptions in mind? The only ones I can really think of are (for the love of god **Xan** , don’t read the spoiler box) Arya, who pretty much stays the determined tomboy, albeit with a slight murderous streak that her circumstances pretty much explain, and Ned, whose inflexibility struck me as two thirds of the point of his story. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-no-spoilers-please/492915/6 "2009-04-13T06:06:27Z")
> [@Omi\_no\_Kami](#): > > Out of curiosity, did you have any specific exceptions in mind? Don’t forget Cersei Lannister. ETA: Okay I edited out the adjectives to be slightly safer, but not the character name. **Xan** should still AVOID. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-no-spoilers-please/492915/7 "2009-04-13T12:09:43Z")
**Omi No Kami** : That’s exactly the set I had in mind. Tamerlane: (Avoid this spoiler, **Xan**!) Actually, she does get a couple of facets: first, iron-clad ambitious bitch…second, narcissistic nutter idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-no-spoilers-please/492915/8 "2009-04-13T13:49:43Z")
I’ve been a fan of Martin’s from 'way back, and I think this is a great series. It’s a really big, well-written tale of adventure, intrigue and ambition; think of the War of the Roses set in a land where magic is not completely unknown but is relatively rare. I can’t think of any tangents that didn’t ultimately have something to do with the central storyline. The characters (and there are many!) are all living, breathing, three-dimensional human beings with their own strengths, weaknesses, motivations and ambitions. No one is either completely evil or entirely good. Martin, to his credit, will sometimes kill characters you really come to care about, and will sometimes reward those you despise. You really can never know for sure what’s next, which is one of the reasons these books are so much fun. Try the first book and see how you like it. If you’re hooked, as I hope and expect you will be, go from there. My only complaint is that Martin’s not writing them fast enough. If, gods forbid, he were hit by a bus tomorrow, I’d be pissed. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-no-spoilers-please/492915/9 "2009-04-13T14:18:00Z")
It’s very, very good so far (I’m up to book 5 now). Lots of interesting characters (although a few, which have already been mentionned, tend to be a bit stereotypical), a bit of action, and a huuuuge load of intrigue, politicking, backstabbing, betraying and fucking each other over. A major selling point compared to LotR and the likes of it is that there is no hero or main character, nor Good Guys vs. Bad Guys. All the factions have their reasons and motivations, none more valid than the others, and you get to see the web of alliances and suspicions from the eyes of people from all sides - in fact it’s a pretty good bet that there’ll be at least one character from each family that you’ll really like, and at least one character from each family you wish would die in a fire. All in all, it’s closer to something like Dune or the Chronicles of Amber than the LotR, in that there’s no big quest to do, no grand destiny to fulfill, no cursed magic item to find or lose and no dragon to off : just a bunch of people trying to get that damn Throne for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-no-spoilers-please/492915/10 "2009-04-13T15:09:44Z")
I guess the way it’s like LOTR is that each person or group is on a quest to unite the world and rid it of evil. But…what is evil? Is evil the invaders from the North? Is evil the family that ousted yours from the throne 25 years ago? Is evil absolutely anyone who stands in your way? There are hundreds and hundreds of characters, but Martin is such a stickler for details and fleshing out his characters that they all seem real and their dialog helps you to remember who they are and where their allegiances lie. The books are long. They’re involved. And they’re completely worth it. Though…they’re not quite finished yet so if your sticking point is finding a novel that reaches its conclusion sometime in the upcoming century, well…I just hope we’re not all disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![thwartme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@thwartme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thwartme)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-no-spoilers-please/492915/11 "2009-04-13T17:00:37Z")
Great series, highly recommended, and no, there’s no useless tangents or meaningless filler. The only problem I have is the pace of his writing. I get that we don’t want to rush him, we want ol’ Mr. Martin to take his time and write the best darn story he can, but gosh darn it, he is taking TOO DAMN LONG. Seriously, at what point is it simple fraud? You took my money for the beginning books of the series, which I purchased on the condition that there would, in some reasonable time frame, be an end to said series. We got book two in two years, book three two years after that, _half_ of book four five years later, and we still haven’t seen the other half four more years on. I call shenanigans. thwartme ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-no-spoilers-please/492915/12 "2009-04-13T17:11:36Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > It’s very, very good so far (I’m up to book 5 now). I’d love to know how you managed that… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-no-spoilers-please/492915/13 "2009-04-13T17:27:49Z")
> [@thwartme](#): > > …I call shenanigans… But not _eeeeeeeeeeeevil_ shenanigans. Bonus points to anyone who recognizes the reference. ---
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-game-of-thrones-no-spoilers-please/492915/14 "2009-04-14T07:15:28Z")
Thanks all for answering my questions.