# A George R.R. Martin Question that is NOT about GoT **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 14, 2019, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110 "2019-03-14T04:06:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/1 "2019-03-14T04:06:50Z")
It’s about _The Armageddon Rag_, instead, which is the first book by him I ever read. So this book centers around the reunion of a legendary 60s rock band called the Nazgul, who split up when their lead singer was assassinated at the conclusion of a concert. The new lead singer is, with the help of some plastic surgery, a dead ringer (sorry, not sorry) for the original, but isn’t anywhere near as good a singer. Except when they’re playing the original songs for the group and then it’s as if he’s possessed by the spirit of Patrick Henry (Hobbit) Hobbes. Martin goes into some detail about the capabilities of all the members in the group as well as fairly extensive descriptions of their hits. I think I would have really loved the group he describes, and I’ve always wondered if he had either an entire group in mind when he created the Nazgul, or individual musicians he modeled the Nazgul members on. While I don’t expect to ever ask him these questions, I thought it might be fun to ask those here who might have read _The Armageddon Rag_ if you’ve ever come up with a line up. I’m thinking that vocally, Freddy Mercury would have been a good match for the lead singer, although the Nazgul’s lead singer was albino and had no song writing chops. Possibly Pete Townsend for Peter Faxon, who wrote all the music for the Nazgul; I think lyrically and musically they’d match, although Townsend played lead guitar and Faxon played bass. I’ve never come up with candidates for Maggio (lead guitar, some lead vocals) and Gopher John (drums), because I just don’t know enough about the various skills and masteries of 60s musicians. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/2 "2019-03-14T12:33:10Z")
All good questions. I’ll have to ponder this for a bit. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/3 "2019-03-14T14:45:56Z")
Now that I think about it, if I tried to substitute real rockers for the Nazgûl, I’d just call them Led Zeppelin and be done with it. 😉 Except, you know…American. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/4 "2019-03-14T15:39:03Z")
You’re talking about it as a _band_, I’m more of a cast it as a movie kind of guy. Given when the book was written I saw them thusly. Hobbins-Mickey Rourke, Maggio-Eric Roberts, Sandy Blair-Jeff Bridges, Faxon-William Hurt. And the young girl with whom Blair gets involved-Rae Dawn Chong. (Obviously, none of these would work now.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/5 "2019-03-14T15:47:50Z")
I read it years and years ago and remember liking it, though I can’t recall enough about the characters to answer this question. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/6 "2019-03-14T16:06:19Z")
The last time I talked to George was just after **A Game of Thrones** came out. He was tickled that I wanted to talk about **Armageddon Rag** instead of his latest. Can’t recall the specifics of the conversation, other than me liking the book a lot and swearing the Nazgûl were a real band. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/7 "2019-03-14T16:17:06Z")
I don’t remember the physical characteristics of Gopher John, but the late Mickey Jones would have both the acting and the drumming chops. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/8 "2019-03-14T16:23:34Z")
That’s the one GRRM novel I have read. Part of it takes place on the same block in Cleveland Heights where I used to live. Funny, I was halfway around the world in Kuala Lumpur when I read it. Hobbins reminded me of Janis Joplin. Maggio made me think of a degenerate David Crosby but with guitar chops like Joe Walsh. The description of Gopher’s drumming reminded me of John Bonham but looking something like like Fat Freddy of the Freak Brothers. Faxon something like a cross between Jack Casady and John Deacon with the chops of Entwistle crossed with Jones and Greg Lake. But Froggy I could not imagine as anything but an imitation Al Franken. My astonishment was boundless when I discovered that the [TV Froggy was _real_](https://youtu.be/YYZazW9Ja1k). I’d assumed such a character could only have existed in Martin’s fevered imagination. That novel was a love letter from the '80s to the '60s. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/9 "2019-03-14T16:38:25Z")
Hobbit Lives! ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/10 "2019-03-14T17:08:05Z")
I’ve always pictured Faxon as being a Ray Manzarek clone. Ray always seemed to have that distanced, cool competence and centered personality that was directly in opposition to the excesses of his more celebrated band mate that I think would fit just right in the Faxon character. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/11 "2019-03-14T17:34:26Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > I’ve always pictured Faxon as being a Ray Manzarek clone. Ray always seemed to have that distanced, cool competence and centered personality that was directly in opposition to the excesses of his more celebrated band mate that I think would fit just right in the Faxon character. Yeah, that’s who I was trying to think of. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/12 "2019-03-14T17:54:43Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Now that I think about it, if I tried to substitute real rockers for the Nazgûl, I’d just call them Led Zeppelin and be done with it. 😉 > > Except, you know…American. Yeah. I read this book when it first came out and I thought of them as Zepplinish even then. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/13 "2019-03-14T18:04:46Z")
Damn, I thought this might be about the Wild Card series! Or Tuf Voyaging . . . ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/14 "2019-03-14T20:37:48Z")
_Tuf Voyaging_, sure, which is a terrific sf satire, or his excellent vampire novel _Fevre Dream_. I was disappointed in _Armageddon Rag_, I have to admit. I didn’t envision any particular musicians (or actors) in those roles, and never went back to the book. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/15 "2019-03-15T13:25:26Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > _Tuf Voyaging_, sure, which is a terrific sf satire … Man, I love me some _Tuf Voyaging_. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/16 "2019-03-15T14:16:51Z")
I named our alpha cat “Havoc” after one of Tuf’s cats. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/17 "2019-03-15T15:48:24Z")
How can you go wrong with a book about cats, genetic engineering, mushroom wine and absolute power? Martin said a few years back that he hopes to write more Tuf stories someday, but, as with ASOIF, I’m not holding my breath. He also posted on his blog that he thinks the actor who plays Varys the eunuch spymaster on _Game of Thrones_ would make a good Tuf, and I agree. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/18 "2019-03-15T18:09:37Z")
That would be perfect casting–man, let it be so! That disappointing swing at _Nightflyers_ did nothing for me but an adaptation of _Tuf Voyaging,_ made to the standards of GoT, would get me hyperventilating. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/19 "2019-03-17T00:29:50Z")
Back to _The Armageddon Rag_, please. That’s the one I’ve actually read and opened this thread specifically to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110/20 "2019-03-17T01:11:45Z")
So? 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-george-r-r-martin-question-that-is-not-about-got/831110.md?page=2)