# a god who is not a bastard **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 4, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374 "2009-02-04T04:37:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/41 "2009-02-04T18:50:24Z")
Yeah, who gives a shit about wishy-washy polytheists? They’re almost as bad as bisexuals. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/42 "2009-02-04T18:53:20Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > All of those are specifically against polytheists, not “unbelievers.” Mohammed was railing against Arabs who “joined gods to God.” There are also commandments about killing apostates too - muslims who want to leave the religion. I’ve read the Qur’an and I’m quite clear what a pile of dogmatic shit it is, although I would say at least you know where you stand with Islam (at arms length and with a form of defence, preferably) whereas Christians are far more apt to pick and choose which bits of the bible they want to use to justify their beliefs (do I follow the Old Testament all the time or just when I need a reason to hate adulterers and fags?). ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/43 "2009-02-04T18:59:19Z")
> [@liberalbill](#): > > Read The Shack by Wm. Paul Young the God in that book is no bastard but is cool and not the same old hell fire and brimstone rectum of evangelicalism So some guy writes a fiction book retconning the Malign Thug and that’s supposed to make it all hunky-dory? Uh, no. How about [Tanuki](http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/tanuki.shtml)? It depends on whether or not you consider _kami_ to be gods or not–I do, but I like the idea of small gods anyway… Tanuki will eat your food, drink your sake and maybe molest your wife but he’s a good guy nonetheless. Mostly… He’s happy and jolly, so he definitely has that going for him. [QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] Yeah, who gives a shit about wishy-washy polytheists? They’re almost as bad as bisexuals. [/QUOTE] Hey now! Some of us find that variety is the condiment of existence–the rest of you can go right ahead and be boring all you like, but it’s handy to have a specific god to get cranky at depending on the problem. As for being bisexual, it definitely improves the chances of getting a date on Friday night… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/44 "2009-02-04T19:01:05Z")
> [@Oregon\_sunshine](#): > > I think some of the Wiccan gods might actually fit the bill… they never tell people to kill any others. The eternal god and goddess who keep the seasons cycling, don’t have time for much mayhem. They certainly aren’t into provoking unrest. Although they don’t necessarily have human needs first in mind, they aren’t arbitrary or cruel with us either. They are forces of nature, whose interests lie in protecting the whole of nature, including us…so many Wiccans believe, anyway. Oh yeah, sure, because bringing about winter, the season where everything DIES isn’t being an arbitrary asshole. Fuck nature gods. All of 'em. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/45 "2009-02-04T19:08:04Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Oh yeah, sure, because bringing about winter, the season where everything DIES isn’t being an arbitrary asshole. Fuck nature gods. All of 'em. Nothing dies at all, it all just sleeps in order to renew in spring–winter has its place and something to teach us. And it’s not arbitrary, happens every year like clockwork, unlike SOME gods who SAY things are gonna happen but they never do. Nature gods RULE! Nature gods fuck like bunnies, too, also unlike SOME gods I could name… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jettboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@Jettboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jettboy)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/46 "2009-02-04T19:52:02Z")
I’m fond of Ganesha. Actually, I’m fond of any god you can throw peanuts to. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/47 "2009-02-04T20:08:39Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > As for being bisexual, it definitely improves the chances of getting a date on Friday night… 😉 True, but there’s kind of an “everybody gets a trophy” feel to it… ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/48 "2009-02-04T20:58:52Z")
I could be wrong here, but it’s my understanding that pagan gods were “bastards” because they were not supposed to be divinely “good,” but rather the overseers of various aspects of life or nature, any of which can be either good or bad to humans. You were supposed to propitiate them to be favorable to you. The quandary arises when you have a god who is supposed to be both the god of all and also a good god. At that point you start having to look into _theodicy_, the question of how a god who is both good and omnipotent permits evil to exist. You can appeal to a force of evil, but that’s to admit that the good god is not in fact responsible for everything. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/49 "2009-02-04T21:31:56Z")
I have already discussed this with you heathens. There is a non-bastard god, and his name is THOR. God of Thunder, Lord of the Living Lightning, Master of the Storm. He who labored ceaselessly against the Celestial Judgment. He who regularly kicks the ass of the Absorbing Man. He who never did the remarkably hot Janet van Dyne though she clearly wanted him so bad it made her giggly, as he did not wish to make Henry Pym feel even more inadequate than he obviously was. All hail Thor. You may worship him by honoring your commitments, protecting thoose who are smaller than you, and buying a beer for your friend when he’s short half a buck. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/50 "2009-02-04T21:42:09Z")
Yes, but Jörd was one of Odin’s concubines, not his wife. Therefore, technically… ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/51 "2009-02-04T22:13:06Z")
> [@Jettboy](#): > > I’m fond of Ganesha. Actually, I’m fond of any god you can throw peanuts to. [Apu] Please do not offer my god a peanut. [/Apu] ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/52 "2009-02-04T22:42:55Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > True, but there’s kind of an “everybody gets a trophy” feel to it… That says a lot more about who YOU date than who I do! 😛 Dude–it’s MORE TITS, who could pass it up? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/53 "2009-02-05T00:30:44Z")
[Quetzalcoatl](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatl) was a really nice guy for a Mesoamerican god. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/54 "2009-02-05T00:33:58Z")
[Hestia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hestia) was a decent sort – or, at least, little bad (nor good) was said about her. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/55 "2009-02-05T00:37:03Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Yes and no. > > First the idea of the Hindu gods not harming innocent people is all very well but must be seen through the prism of Hindu morality. Innocent didn’t necessarily mean morally blameless, it just meant not involved. You didn’t have to be a bad person to get the gods to fuck with you, just caught up in their activities (Arjunna in the Bhagavad Gita springs to mind - “no, don’t get all pacifist, kill those Kuru fuckers!” quoth Krishna). This is an odd way to interpret the Mahabharata, and Krishna clearly didn’t say anything close to “no, don’t get all pacifist, kill those Kuru fuckers.” I really have to question if you’ve ever read the work, given that you seem to characterize the Kauravas as “just caught up in their activities.” That’s nonsensical. > [@](#): > > Also the gods had their dark aspects. Whilst Shiva was a fairly nice guy, Rudra as his dark aspect wasn’t (similarly for Parvati and Kali/Durga). Can you point me to a story where Rudra or Kali/Durga intentionally killed or harmed innocent humans? ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/56 "2009-02-05T00:43:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There are some examples of violence in Hindu mythology, often at the behest of the gods. Well, my point was about the big three harming innocent humans. If you believe any and all acts of violence is inherently immoral, then I guess no god in the Hindu pantheon will qualify as moral 100% of the time. > [@](#): > > Shiva chopped off his son Ganesh’s head because Ganesh wouldn’t let him into the room where his mother (Shiva’s wife) was bathing… then replaced it with an elephant’s head because his wife made him save the boy. That’s left out several key details, hasn’t it? Ganesh isn’t a human, and his head was chopped off in battle. > [@](#): > > Indra (the king of the devas, or lesser gods) was supposed to have slain the child Hanuman (the monkey god\*) because he flew up to the sun and tried to eat it, thinking it was a giant mango. He also ended up having to resurrect his victim because Vayu (the god of the wind, and Hanuman’s sort of surrogate father) got angry and stole all the earth’s air. > > FWIW, the latter story is an example of lack of regard for humans, since the main reason that Vayu’s departure from the earth was a problem is that all the humans were suffocating. These are Devas and not the big three. But I’ve never seen Vayu’s departure depicted as intentionally trying to suffocate the world, merely as an unthinking byproduct of his departure. Which would categorize it, I suppose, as malicious indifference. > [@](#): > > Weapons of war also figure prominently in Hindu mythology; the _Brahmastra_ is a spear that can pierce any defense, and the _Sudarshana Chakra_ is a sharp-edged disc that guards righteous types (and sometimes slaughters the bad guys). Well, if you think all weaponry is bad, then I see your point. However, I never made the claim that Hindu mythology is without violence. Your post is somewhat of a non-sequitir to mine. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/57 "2009-02-05T00:50:23Z")
[Bes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bes) perhaps ? What little I’ve heard of him is good. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/58 "2009-02-05T02:09:51Z")
I did think of an example which contradicts my original post in this thread. In the Ramayana, Rama, who is an incarnation of Vishnu, has returned to Ayodha with his wife Sita, who was kidnapped by the demon Ravana. Some time later, a washerman in the city kicks his wife out of the house for cheating on him. In doing so, he says to her something like, “Do you think I’m like Rama, to take my wife back after she’s been living in someone else’s house?” This incident is reported to Rama, who then exiles Sita to the forest to live with the sage Valmiki. Now, the common explanation I’ve heard of this is that it was a selfless act on the part of Rama, since he couldn’t be viewed as compromising the dignity and legitimacy of his throne without causing instability and perhaps chaos. However, it’s always struck me as kind of a nasty thing to do to Sita. I’m a bit mortified that I forgot this example, because one of my distant relatives once published a tract arguing that when Vishnu was in human form, such as Rama, he exhibited a dual nature of being human and divine at the same time. And he used this particular episode as one of his examples to back his thesis. The tract apparently caused quite a ruckus, and my relative was actually charged with blasphemy, but the charges were eventually dropped, I believe, on free speech grounds. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/59 "2009-02-05T02:25:57Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > [Bes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bes) perhaps ? What little I’ve heard of him is good. Yes, but what you’ve heard of him has all come from Eric Flint and David Fleer. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/60 "2009-02-05T03:37:27Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Yes, but what you’ve heard of him has all come from Eric Flint and David Fleer. 😃 And Wikipedia, which I why I said “what little I’ve heard of him.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374.md?page=4)