# a god who is not a bastard **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 4, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374 "2009-02-04T04:37:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/61 "2009-02-05T03:56:47Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > I’m a bit mortified that I forgot this example, because one of my distant relatives once published a tract arguing that when Vishnu was in human form, such as Rama, he exhibited a dual nature of being human and divine at the same time. And he used this particular episode as one of his examples to back his thesis. Yeah, the problem with Rama in that issue was also, he is trying to be the embodiment of a good LEADER- and sometimes that means putting your status/throne in front of your own wishes. So rather than be seen as a weak leader, he had to “do the right thing” for those days and set an example of what a Leader’s Dharma should be in that situation- that’s why he had to banish his wife. Now if we want to get all Karmic about it, we could say it was destiny. As everything is already written, we could say He (divinely) knew what was to happen, and that in order to set up a Dynasty and the eventual Departure of Sita from this realm, he was going to have to send her off- and that way she would be able to produce his heirs, Luv and Kush, who wouldn’t be around their father but yet still grow to become wise young men themselves and brash enough to be able to challenge Rama and his own warriors when the time came (and hold their own as well). So by doing so, they would be given greater status, and more acceptance by the common people, and when they all saw the leaving of Sita at the end, they would realize how their own foolish actions had cause their King to suffer, and would hopefully become better people for it. So in the end, the mortal Rama didn’t get to live happily ever after, but he Spike Lee’d it up, and Did the Right Thing, and thusly others could learn from his example, and perhaps better be able to apply this in the future to their own lives, that maybe they CAN try to be as kind and what not as Rama. :shrug: I like both versions though (surprise, surprise). The Dualistic-natured hypothesis is a very valid one, and I liked it quite a bit- the Divine mixed with the Mortal. But I also like the Greater Good idea as well, it just depends on my mood. /waxing poetic on something he rarely gets to talk about. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/62 "2009-02-05T04:19:20Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Nothing dies at all, it all just sleeps in order to renew in spring–winter has its place and something to teach us. And it’s not arbitrary, happens every year like clockwork, unlike SOME gods who SAY things are gonna happen but they never do. Nature gods RULE! > Nature gods fuck like bunnies, too, also unlike SOME gods I could name… 😉 That’s only true if one assumes winter is needed for anything. I’m sure the birds and the bees and the trees and the tramps could do with 3 seasons, spring to summer to autumn to spring, and none of that freezing alive bullshit :). I’m with Skald though. Any god who looks like he may need to crash on your couch after an evening of whenching and carousing, and solves every problem with a hammer is OK in my book. But then, I suppose Loki and the Frost Giants would disagree ;). Heimdall would be an even better choice - sits on his ass all day at the end of Bifrost, and the worst he can do to you is toot his horn in your general direction. Lame god, sure, but not a bastard. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/63 "2009-02-05T04:39:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Hestia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hestia) was a decent sort – or, at least, little bad (nor good) was said about her. Well, when your portfolio\* is hearth and home, it’s hard to think of something to abuse. Maybe she could drive evildoers’ property tax assessments up. \*I always loved how D&D referred to gods’ areas of specialization as “portfolios.” One imagines a God of Western Economic Diversification or a Goddess of Intergovernmental Affairs. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/64 "2009-02-05T10:13:18Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > This is an odd way to interpret the Mahabharata, and Krishna clearly didn’t say anything close to “no, don’t get all pacifist, kill those Kuru fuckers.” I really have to question if you’ve ever read the work, given that you seem to characterize the Kauravas as “just caught up in their activities.” That’s nonsensical. Excuse me, but fuck you? Could you be any more condescending in your desire to be the more informed person on this topic? Yes I’ve read the Bhagavad Gita many times as I used to subscribe to Hinduism, although not anymore. And yes, there is actually a line where Krishna says word for word “no, don’t get all pacifist, kill those Kuru fuckers”. That’s exactly what I was saying. :rolleyes: My point was that Arjuna at the start of the Gita announces he will not fight and slay his opponents (who also happen to be related to him) as it would be murder and the rest of the Gita consists of Krishna explaining to him why his determination not to fight or killing another is misguided. Of course this is in the context of him being a warrior and it being his dharma to fight others, and the fact that death comes to us all and it is but a matter of time (and of course we’re all reincarnated as it’s all part of samsara blah de blah) and ultimately the struggle Arjuna is having with his enemies is right because they are operating out of their selfish desire to conquer and he is resisting them. Whilst the discourse between Arjuna and Krishan resonates strongly with Hindo morality, if you were to view a conversation like that between two people through other prisms of morality (such as one where war is abhored in any circumstances) then a god talking a mortal into battling and killing others wouldn’t be seen as such a good thing to do. Have I demonstrated that I’ve read the book now? > [@](#): > > Can you point me to a story where Rudra or Kali/Durga intentionally killed or harmed innocent humans? Not off the top of my head, although I’m sure I’d read a story where Shiva as Rudra terrorised a mortal for shits and giggles, but as I can’t remember the story or the details I’m not going to stake my reputation on it. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/65 "2009-02-05T10:25:03Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Excuse me, but fuck you? Could you be any more condescending in your desire to be the more informed person on this topic? mYes I’ve read the Bhagavad Gita many times as I used to subscribe to Hinduism, although not anymore. And yes, there is actually a line where Krishna says word for word “no, don’t get all pacifist, kill those Kuru fuckers”. That’s exactly what I was saying. :rolleyes: The Bhagavad Gita is only one section of the Mahabharata, so I think my point still stands. I question whether you’ve read the Mahabharata. However, I would like to point me to the section where Krishna calls the Kauravas “fuckers.” It’s not in any translation I’ve ever read. > [@](#): > > My point was that Arjuna at the start of the Gita announces he will not fight and slay his opponents (who also happen to be related to him) as it would be murder and the rest of the Gita consists of Krishna explaining to him why his determination not to fight or killing another is misguided. Of course this is in the context of him being a warrior and it being his dharma to fight others, and the fact that death comes to us all and it is but a matter of time (and of course we’re all reincarnated as it’s all part of samsara blah de blah) and ultimately the struggle Arjuna is having with his enemies is right because they are operating out of their selfish desire to conquer and he is resisting them. > > Whilst the discourse between Arjuna and Krishan resonates strongly with Hindo morality, if you were to view a conversation like that between two people through other prisms of morality (such as one where war is abhored in any circumstances) then a god talking a mortal into battling and killing others wouldn’t be seen as such a good thing to do. If you had said this, I probably wouldn’t have responded to your original post. But that’s not what you said. I was talking about innocent human beings, and you’re response to my post indicates that you think the Kauravas are innocent. They are clearly not, in the Mahabharata. > [@](#): > > Have I demonstrated that I’ve read the book now? No, you haven’t demonstrated you’ve read the Mahabharata. You’ve indicated that you’ve read one section of it. > [@](#): > > Not off the top of my head, although I’m sure I’d read a story where Shiva as Rudra terrorised a mortal for shits and giggles, but as I can’t remember the story or the details I’m not going to stake my reputation on it. Ok. I’ve never heard this story. ---
**Author:** ![seodoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@seodoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seodoa)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/66 "2009-02-05T10:32:34Z")
Ebisu is such a fine fellow. I still say he wins the thread. He ain’t hurtin’ nobody. He just wants to smile, be happy, and catch fish. Without any fightin’. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/67 "2009-02-05T10:36:29Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I’m with Skald though. Any god who looks like he may need to crash on your couch after an evening of whenching and carousing, and solves every problem with a hammer is OK in my book. Please. Thor is the jock bully of gods. I keep picturing him grabbing Horus by the arm and going “Wherefore thou keep hitting thyself? Wherefore?” ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/68 "2009-02-05T11:01:45Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > The Bhagavad Gita is only one section of the Mahabharata, so I think my point still stands. I question whether you’ve read the Mahabharata. However, I would like to point me to the section where Krishna calls the Kauravas “fuckers.” It’s not in any translation I’ve ever read. Of course he didn’t say that, can’t you tell when someone is larbouring a point sarcastically? Do smilies mean nothing to you??!?!?!? _Repeatedly slams head against a brick wall_ No I haven’t read the Mahabarata (all 9 million volumes of it - SARCASM!), I was referring all the way through to the Bhagavad Gita. Sorry if this wasn’t clear. > [@](#): > > If you had said this, I probably wouldn’t have responded to your original post. But that’s not what you said. I was talking about innocent human beings, and you’re response to my post indicates that you think the Kauravas are innocent. They are clearly not, in the Mahabharata. Okay, whilst I don’t dispute what you’re saying I think you’re leaning towards pedantry for the sake of being right. I think my point about Hindu morality having the potential to be interpreted in a less than favourable light as depicted in the Gita (with or without the rest of the Mahabrata) stands. ---
**Author:** ![seodoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@seodoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seodoa)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/69 "2009-02-05T11:25:05Z")
Our beloved lady, Princess Nunagawa, is a fine, friendly, and charming deity, too. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/70 "2009-02-05T12:36:25Z")
> [@chacoguy420](#): > > If you believe in the divinity of Jesus, and stick only to what he is quoted as having said in the gospels, he seems like a decent Joe. One out of six of his sayings point out that being wealthy tends to make you an asshole; while a third of the parables do. He’s only marginally okay with blind obedience to the government. He seeks to help out the underprivileged. He parties (water into wine). I’d hang out with him. > Get ready to duck; the mighty fist of the **right** eous is about to strike. He really didn’t help any of the underprivileged,He said, "the poor you will always have with you). The people he fed would not have been hungry if they were at home instead of standing there listening to Him. Healing did not take any effort, but He did try to stand up for the sinners and not judge them. So indeed He was compassionate in that way. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/71 "2009-02-05T17:27:05Z")
Gods need a hammer. Do right because it gives me a godly boner does not work. They have to be able to char broil you for all eternity when you piss them off. That is a demonstration of gods love. Tough love I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/72 "2009-02-05T20:23:48Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Yes, but Jörd was one of Odin’s concubines, not his wife. Therefore, technically… I’ll grant that the Thunderer is a LITERAL bastard, just not a metaphorical one. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/73 "2009-02-05T22:33:10Z")
> [@seodoa](#): > > Ebisu is such a fine fellow. I still say he wins the thread. He ain’t hurtin’ nobody. He just wants to smile, be happy, and catch fish. Without any fightin’. [The dude even has his own beer, and not many deities can say that.](http://madehealthier.com/images/2008/yebisu_beer.jpg) It’s good stuff, too. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/74 "2009-02-06T14:11:34Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Well, when your portfolio\* is hearth and home, it’s hard to think of something to abuse. Maybe she could drive evildoers’ property tax assessments up. Should be fairly easy for her to set somebody’s house on fire, if she were so inclined. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/75 "2009-02-06T14:47:33Z")
Hey, guys - forget all the rest of these loser ghods and worship the only truly non-bastad god: the [Flying Spaghetti Monster](http://www.venganza.org/). ---
**Author:** ![ironjustice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@ironjustice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ironjustice)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/76 "2009-02-07T03:34:19Z")
The death in the Bible is NOT to be taken ‘literally’ but in the context of rooting out and destroying bad ‘thought’. There is a book “The Hidden Mystery of the Bible” written by Jack Ensign Addington. Mr. Addington after decades in the ministry began to see a ‘pattern’ to the use of different words and names in the Bible. His work culminated in the finding of a ‘mystic’ type PROVABLE code in the Bible. This code speaks to ‘enlightenment’ … how to achieve enlightenment. It involves the total and utter destruction… to the last man , woman , child and animal… thought… bad thought. One ‘realizes’ and lists what is ‘wrong’ with oneself… bad traits. The enlightenment entails DWELLING on these bad traits which begin with … thought … and destroying them … these thoughts. THIS is WHY there seems to be SO MUCH death and destruction carried out by ‘dear old dad’. NOT to be taken ‘literally’ but in the context of rooting out and destroying bad ‘thought’. This code is NOT the code which is at the moment being spoken about on the net. This code is totally different in that you don’t need a ‘calculator’ in order to understand it. It is EASILY understood once one KNOWS what the ‘words’ mean. Mr. Addington went on to found ‘The Abundant Living Foundation’. In this book Mr. Addington explains how after decades in the ministry began to see a ‘pattern’ to different names and words in the Bible. He believes this code permeates throughout all the mystic works. It would be interesting if one were to attempt to apply this code to the ‘legend’ of King Arthur. It may make for an interesting thesis. I believe Excalibur and the ‘sword of judgment’ from the Bible could very well be one and the same sword. New Thought writer Jack Ensign Addington believes that once you discover the hidden meaning of the Bible, an infinite source of wisdom will be illuminated and revealed. This is an excerpt from his book off my webpage. [http://jesuswasavegetarian.freewebspace.com/light.html](http://jesuswasavegetarian.freewebspace.com/light.html) QUOTE: The Great Day of Discovery All of a sudden it came to me that the three keys with which we had been working constituted a code, literally a secret code which would reveal the true meaning of the Bible. My wife and I were sitting in my study at home surrounded by reams and reams of notes relating to the Bible: the work of many classes I had given; the work of months of patient research. There were lists of names with their hidden meanings from the Hebrew; lists of places with their inner meanings: and words, words defined-some even scribbled on the backs of envelopes. It seemed like a maze, but now we could see it all fitting together. With the three keys that had been handed to us, we could develope a secret code which would unlock the mystery of any story in the Bible! Clues to the Hidden Meanings To understand the hidden meaning of this story, it is necessary to know that ‘children’ stand for ‘thoughts springing from the parent thought’. The people in these Bible allegories are all states of consciousness. Joseph means ‘the increaser’ and stands for the imaginative faculty in man. It is always the imagination that is the dreamer and interpreter of dreams. It is through imagination that we are able to conceive of our good, accept it, and let it be created through us. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/77 "2009-02-07T03:36:39Z")
I’m healed! ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/78 "2009-02-07T07:19:51Z")
> [@](#): > > **monavis** : He really didn’t help any of the underprivileged… But he did instruct others to do so. He told a young rich man to sell everything he had and give the money to the poor. He also told some of his followers that when they give a banquet, they should invite the poor, the crippled, the lame and the blind. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/79 "2009-02-07T13:38:21Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > But he did instruct others to do so. He told a young rich man to sell everything he had and give the money to the poor. He also told some of his followers that when they give a banquet, they should invite the poor, the crippled, the lame and the blind. I wonder why He didn’t do it Himself! Was it do as I say, not as I do? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374/80 "2009-02-07T22:58:14Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I wonder why He didn’t do it Himself! Was it do as I say, not as I do? Because he was an Epic Mooch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-god-who-is-not-a-bastard/484374.md?page=5)