# A good time to use the semicolon; in the crafting of a sentence. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 24, 2005, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250 "2005-05-24T12:56:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![velvetgrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/47e85d/32.png) [@velvetgrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velvetgrass)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/1 "2005-05-24T12:56:33Z")
I don’t understand when and how to use the semicolon in a sentence. Please give me a few example sentences and where the subjects/verbs/etc are so i can see exactly what is going on and what the regulations are. tia ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/2 "2005-05-24T13:07:29Z")
Used for joining two independant clauses without using a conjunction like _and_ or _but_. I usually use it in place of a comma if the two clauses sound like they could stand alone as seperate sentences. I just posted this; I hope it doesn’t double-post. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/3 "2005-05-24T13:10:20Z")
[http://www.uhv.edu/ac/student/writing/grammartip081004.htm](http://www.uhv.edu/ac/student/writing/grammartip081004.htm) Good examples here. In short, though, keep this in mind (from the above link): “A semicolon is stronger than a comma, but not as strong as a period.” So you can use it as a “weak period” to separate two closely related sentences/clauses (where you would have used a period), or use it as a “super comma” to separate confusing/long strings (where you would have used a comma). ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/4 "2005-05-24T13:12:16Z")
Your OP is not a good example; semicolons are used to connect what could otherwise be two whole sentences. The sentences, once connected, are referred to as independent clauses; the complete combined sentence is a compound sentence. Semicolons replace the comma + conjunction format for compounds; for instance, instead of writing “Bill painted, and Jane sculpted,” one could write “Bill painted; Jane sculpted.” Of course, semicolons are not meant to connect two clauses willy-nilly; there should be some connection, such as the second clause being an explanation of or subsidiary thought to the first clause. I hope this is helpful; moreover, I hop you understand that for purposes of illustration I’ve created some clunky compound sentences above which would be better left as two uncombined sentences. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/5 "2005-05-24T13:18:06Z")
I hop? Oy. Also, as **toad** notes, semicolons are proper in certain chains of items that would typically be connected by commas: “Tim, Joe, Fred, Marcia, and I went to the movies.” That’s fine, but “I traveled to the offices at 12 Park Street, Springfield, Illinois, 773 Martin Street, Columbus, Ohio, 443 Market Street, Erie, Pennsylvania, and 55 Charles Avenue, Wheeling, West Virginia,” is confusing. When items in a chain have internal commas, you’d separate the chain by semicolons to clearly signal new items. Semicolons can also be used when items in a chain are simply long, albeit not internally punctuated, but there’s no hard and fast rule there. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/6 "2005-05-24T13:42:42Z")
I generally use semicolons when the paragraph is looking too choppy because of short sentences, or a sentence is just too long and awkward to stuff another ‘and’ into it; they also help when you want to continue a thought without a complete halt. ---
**Author:** ![Arwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/7 "2005-05-24T13:50:10Z")
> [@velvetgrass](#): > > I don’t understand when and how to use the semicolon in a sentence. > > Please give me a few example sentences and where the subjects/verbs/etc are so i can see exactly what is going on and what the regulations are. > > tia When you give an example, of something such as in your OP title, you should use the colon (“A good time to use the colon: when giving an example.”) Semicolons are good for lists, as noted, especially of longer items, and connecting sentences that have a strong connection, mostly when the second sentence is an explanation of the statement made in the first. The following paragraph illustrates most important uses: A few examples of stupid remarks are: “Singing lessons are nothing for me; I can’t sing.”; “Sometimes I think I’m quite clever; I mean, thinking is quite clever, isn’t it?”; and “I don’t understand why people don’t understand me; it’s not like I don’t never use double-negatives or anything!” ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/8 "2005-05-24T14:50:10Z")
> [@Arwin](#): > > “I don’t understand why people don’t understand me; it’s not like I don’t never use double-negatives or anything!” Is’nt this last construction wrong? Shouldn’t it be: “I don’t understand why people don’t understand me; it’s not like I don’t never use double-negatives or nothing!” ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/9 "2005-05-24T15:49:51Z")
[QUOTE=Arwin] “Singing lessons are nothing for me; I can’t sing.” A colon might be better here. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/10 "2005-05-24T15:58:00Z")
[QUOTE=Xema] > [@Arwin](#): > > “Singing lessons are nothing for me; I can’t sing.” > A colon might be better here. It might, but only on Bizarro World. That’s a classic semicolon situation – two clauses that could stand as complete sentences joined by a semicolon without conjunction because the second clause amplifies the first. A colon would be inappropriate. A colon is an equals sign; it is applicable only when the stuff to the left of the colon is equal to the stuff to the right of the colon. These two clauses are not equal; instead, one is the explanation of the other. If you wanted to express this idea in a sentence with a colon, it would be something like “There is a reason why singing lessons are nothing for me: I can’t sing.” –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Rodd\_Hill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@Rodd\_Hill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodd_Hill)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/11 "2005-05-24T16:06:09Z")
Next week—Lord willing and the creek don’t rise—the em dash. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/12 "2005-05-24T17:56:55Z")
I was taught that one could replace semicolons with periods and em-dashes with commas, and the grammar should remain valid. The sense or emphasis might change, but where it’s gramattically correct to use a semicolon, it would also be grammatically correct to use a period. The exception is the serial semicolon used in lists, as described by **Cliffy**. You can’t replace those with periods. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/13 "2005-05-24T18:18:02Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > It might, but only on Bizarro World. That’s a classic semicolon situation – two clauses that could stand as complete sentences joined by a semicolon without conjunction because the second clause amplifies the first. [This site](http://www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/111602.htm) (among others) appears to disagree with you: > [@](#): > > The situation gets a bit more complicated when we have two independent clauses and have to decide which mark of punctuation, the colon or the semicolon, is more appropriate. Consider these two sentences: > –John has a serious problem; he is seeking professional help. > –John has a serious problem: he does not know how to relax. > Both sentences contain two complete thoughts, but the relationship between the two clauses in each case is quite different. In the first sentence, the second clause merely adds to the thought expressed in the first clause. However, it does not answer the question hinted at in the first clause; we are still left wondering about the nature of John’s problem. > In the second sentence we also have two independent clauses, but this time the relationship is different: the second clause fills in the information hinted at in the first. That is, it tells us John’s problem. Your contention that a colon is not used when the second clause is the explanation of the first seems to be contrary to one well accepted use of this punctuation mark. For another example, [this site](http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/c.html) offers the advice about the colon: “Use it to pause & explain.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/14 "2005-05-24T18:43:19Z")
My interpretation of the rules agrees with **Cliffy’s** explanation. I think the semi-colon is the appropriate punctuation in that case. My test for semi-colon use is whether you can substitute the words “which is/are” for the colon and make some sense. I have a problem with singing lessons: I’m completely tone deaf. but Singing lessons would do nothing for me; I’m completely tone deaf. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/15 "2005-05-24T19:22:21Z")
Correct semicolon usage? The northeast capitals: Albany, NY\*\*;\*\* Trenton, NJ\*\*;\*\* Boston, MA\*\*;\*\* Providence, RI and Hartford, CT were all major trading hubs during the colonial era. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/16 "2005-05-24T19:57:18Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > Correct semicolon usage? > > The northeast capitals: Albany, NY\*\*;\*\* Trenton, NJ\*\*;\*\* Boston, MA\*\*;\*\* Providence, RI and Hartford, CT were all major trading hubs during the colonial era. I would put one last semi-colon between “Providence, RI” and “and Harford, CT.” There would also be a comma after “CT.” Preferably, avoid postal abbreviations in anything but addresses. State names are set off on both sides by commas. You would write: Paris, Texas, is not to be confused with Paris, France. NOT Paris, Texas is not to be confused with Paris, France. And, a little correction, in my previous post I wrote: “My test for semi-colon use is whether you can substitute the words “which is/are” for the colon and make some sense.” I meant: My test for **colon** use. I guess in this particular case the “which is/are” test doesn’t work. I also think of colons as meaning “the following.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/17 "2005-05-24T20:06:25Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > Correct semicolon usage? > > The northeast capitals: Albany, NY\*\*;\*\* Trenton, NJ\*\*;\*\* Boston, MA\*\*;\*\* Providence, RI and Hartford, CT were all major trading hubs during the colonial era. Crap. I didn’t even notice your use of the colon there. I wouldn’t use it like that. I would either set the capitals off from the rest of the sentence with parentheses or em dashes. I _think_ you might even be able to use a comma here, but it looks really yucky to me. I’d write it as: The northeast capitals—Albany, New York; Trenton, New Jersey; Boston, Massachusetts; Providence, Rhode Island; and Harford, Connecticut—were all major trading hubs during the colonial era. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/18 "2005-05-24T20:09:21Z")
One more thing, and I’ll shut up. If you must use state abbreviations in your writing, I’d stick with AP Style and use the old fashioned abbreviations. To wit: The northeast capitals—Albany, N.Y.; Trenton, N.J.; Boston, Mass.; Providence, R.I.; and Harford, Conn.—were all major trading hubs during the colonial era. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/19 "2005-05-24T20:25:28Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > Correct semicolon usage? > The northeast capitals: Albany, NY\*\*;\*\* Trenton, NJ\*\*;\*\* Boston, MA\*\*;\*\* Providence, RI and Hartford, CT were all major trading hubs during the colonial era. This one fails the commonly applied test that what precedes the colon be capable of standing as a sentence. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/20 "2005-05-24T20:51:49Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > This one fails the commonly applied test that what precedes the colon be capable of standing as a sentence. Not necessarily: > [@](#): > > Opportunism and greed: there you had your much-vaunted corporate business world. [From here.](http://people.whitman.edu/~hashimiy/colonxmp.htm) Yes, your general rule is correct but, as with most grammatical “rules,” they are more guidelines than anything else. But, yes, **John** ’s use of the colon was incorrect in that case. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250.md?page=2)