# A good time to use the semicolon; in the crafting of a sentence. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 24, 2005, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250 "2005-05-24T12:56:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/21 "2005-05-25T01:49:01Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > One more thing, and I’ll shut up. If you must use state abbreviations in your writing, I’d stick with AP Style and use the old fashioned abbreviations. How come? ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/22 "2005-05-25T02:45:58Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > My interpretation of the rules agrees with **Cliffy’s** explanation. I think the semi-colon is the appropriate punctuation in that case. > > My test for semi-colon use is whether you can substitute the words “which is/are” for the colon and make some sense. > > I have a problem with singing lessons: I’m completely tone deaf. > > but > > Singing lessons would do nothing for me; I’m completely tone deaf. And I would respectfully disagree. I don’t have my style books with me, but I do believe that’s too restrictive a guideline for colon usage. A colon is _not_ an equals sign: an equals sign is an equals sign. ---
**Author:** ![Arwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/23 "2005-05-25T08:04:58Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > [This site](http://www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/111602.htm) (among others) appears to disagree with you: > > Your contention that a colon is not used when the second clause is the explanation of the first seems to be contrary to one well accepted use of this punctuation mark. > > For another example, [this site](http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/c.html) offers the advice about the colon: “Use it to pause & explain.” It doesn’t exactly disagree. The example of the colon use actually specifies the exact problem. That’s exactly the kind of use for which I suggested using the colon also. But if there’s a strong implied relationship that does not provide a direct instance of what was expressed in the preceding clause, the semi-colon is the appropriate choice. ---
**Author:** ![Arwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/24 "2005-05-25T08:06:09Z")
> [@OxyMoron](#): > > And I would respectfully disagree. I don’t have my style books with me, but I do believe that’s too restrictive a guideline for colon usage. A colon is _not_ an equals sign: an equals sign is an equals sign. Could you kindly provide me a sentence that demonstrates a correct use of the equals sign? ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/25 "2005-05-25T13:57:20Z")
> [@](#): > > The northeast capitals: Albany, NY; Trenton, NJ; Boston, MA; Providence, RI and Hartford, CT were all major trading hubs during the colonial era. I agree that the colon doesn’t work particularly well in this sentence; the problem is that the reader isn’t expecting the sentence’s verb way back there after the list, because the colon usually means only clarification of a particular object. That’s why a dash – which signals that the thought will continue – is better in this case (as \*\*pulykamell \*\*pointed out). If you really, really, want a colon in there, a better version might be: “Major trading hubs during the colonial era included the northeast capitals: Albany, N.Y.; Trenton, N.J.; Boston, Mass.; Providence, R.I. and Hartford, Conn.” This does, however, change the emphasis of the sentence, and also makes it a little more passive, so I like the dashes better, myself. And since I’ve been sounding off on that, I’ll keep going. My preference on state abbreviations is AP-style long ones (e.g. Mass.) rather than Post Office two-letter ones (MA), just because I think it looks nicer and reads a little easier. It just feels more like a sentence to me, and less like a database dump or computer code. It’s a personal style choice, though (unless you’re writing for the AP or someone else with a style manual). And the equal sign ("=") is generally eschewed in formal writing, with the word “equals” being preferred. E.G. “Tom tried to prove that one plus one equals three, but failed.” However, if writing out an equation makes things clearer, then go for it, but remember that formatting might not always be preserved, so you could end up with “Einstein’s most famous equation is E=mc2.” Which might lead readers to think about forty percent of the Motor City Five instead of Einstein. \ \ ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/26 "2005-05-25T14:26:32Z")
My wife has a semicolon; that’s what remained after the surgery. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/27 "2005-05-25T14:42:13Z")
> [@OxyMoron](#): > > And I would respectfully disagree. I don’t have my style books with me, but I do believe that’s too restrictive a guideline for colon usage. A colon is _not_ an equals sign: an equals sign is an equals sign. And I would say your final sentence is better puctuated as: A colon is _not_ an equals sign; an equals sign is an equals sign. I don’t understand why you would choose to use a colon there. Your sentence seems to fulfil the classic rule on semi-colon usage, which is to link two independent clauses that require a separation stronger than a comma, but less than a period. **CaveMike** —as to why I prefer the old abbreviations, it’s because it looks much better to me in writing. The abbreviation in “Chicago, IL” sticks out like a sore thumb to me compared to “Chicago, Ill.” However, it’s just a matter of style. You may feel free to use two-letter postal abbreviations if your style allows it. Just be consistent. Also, if you do use the two letter abbreviations, the comma is not necessary, at least the United States Post Office doesn’t use it. So, for our sample sentence we can have: The northeast capitals—Albany NY, Trenton NJ, Boston MA, Providence RI, and Harford CT—were all major trading hubs during the colonial era. I actually don’t mind the way this looks. Gets rids of a lot of punctuation clutter. However, I don’t know of any major stylebook that advocates this style. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/28 "2005-05-25T20:06:15Z")
Original Example: _The northeast capitals: Albany, NY; Trenton, NJ; Boston, MA; Providence, RI and Hartford, CT were all major trading hubs during the colonial era._ > [@pulykamell](#): > > …My test for semi-colon use is whether you can substitute the words “which is/are” for the colon and make some sense… > [@pulykamell](#): > > I didn’t even notice your use of the colon there…I wouldn’t use it like that.The northeast capitals—Albany, New York; Trenton, New Jersey; Boston, Massachusetts; Providence, Rhode Island; and Harford, Connecticut—were all major trading hubs during the colonial era. I’m totally confused. I was taught colons (not semicolons or dashes) [introduce words, phrases, sentences, quotations or **lists**](http://chuma.cas.usf.edu/~olson/pms/colon.html). In the example above, those state capitals are part of a list. Why do you recommend a semicolon or dash (as opposed to a colon) be used? Though those 5 cities fall into your _which is/are rule_, I’ve always operated under the premise that semicolons are used like super-commas: which as **Cliffy** pointed out: “_are used to connect what could otherwise be two whole sentences_”. Are you certain your _which is/are test_ pertains to semicolons or was there an misplaced semi in front of the colon? One more Q: Shouldn’t semicolon be non-hyphenated word? ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/29 "2005-05-25T20:34:59Z")
**John** , semicolons have two uses. The most important is to create a compound sentence without the need for a conjunction such as and, but, or, yet, etc. The second is as supercomma to set off a series that would typically be set off by commas but can’t be because it (typically) contains internal commas of its own. I don’t know the evolution of the mark, but to my mind the second use seems most likely to have been a borrowing of the mark from its standard (conjunctive) usage just because the typesetter needed something to replace the comma and the semicolon looked more like a comma than anything else around. **puly** and **Xema** , et al., are arguing about the first usage only. I’m still confident of my position, **Xema**. The example from your link supports me. “John has a serious problem: he does not know how to relax.” uses the colon as an equals sign. The first part of the sentece leads the reader to ask “What problem?” The stuff after the colon answers it. That’s an equals sign. Alternatively, it’s an idea which could also be expressed with the words “it/which is.” That doesn’t fit the sentence “Singing lessons are nothing for me: I can’t sing.” For a colon to be acceptable here, it should answer the question “What me?” The stuff on one side of the colon should be equal to the stuff on the other side. John’s problem = he can’t relax. There’s no equal relationship in anything about the singing sentence. The second part amplifies and explains the first part, which is why it’s appropriate for a semicolon to be there in a way it’s not appropriate to use a semicolon for a non sequittr. But it doesn’t justify a colon. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/30 "2005-05-25T23:18:47Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > Original Example: _The northeast capitals: Albany, NY; Trenton, NJ; Boston, MA; Providence, RI and Hartford, CT were all major trading hubs during the colonial era._ > I’m totally confused. > > I was taught colons (not semicolons or dashes) [introduce words, phrases, sentences, quotations or **lists**](http://chuma.cas.usf.edu/~olson/pms/colon.html). > > In the example above, those state capitals are part of a list. Why do you recommend a semicolon or dash (as opposed to a colon) be used? Though those 5 cities fall into your _which is/are rule_, I’ve always operated under the premise that semicolons are used like super-commas: which as **Cliffy** pointed out: “_are used to connect what could otherwise be two whole sentences_”. Are you certain your _which is/are test_ pertains to semicolons or was there an misplaced semi in front of the colon? > > One more Q: Shouldn’t semicolon be non-hyphenated word? Yeah, “semicolon” is the preferred spelling. I believe “semi-colon” is allowable as well, but I prefer the hyphenless spelling (even though I had used the hyphen in my spellings. Brain fart.) Yes, the colon is used to introduce lists, but not lists that are part of a complete sentence, as in your example. When introducing lists, a colon should follow an independent clause. Thus, you would never punctuate this way: Today for breakfast, I ate: oranges, milk, cereal, and toast. (Incorrect.) but rather: Today for breakfast, I ate oranges, milk, cereal, and toast. (Correct.) I ate the following for breakfast: oranges, milk, cereal, and toast. (Correct.) I confess, the “which/are” test is not as neat as I would like it. It just never would occur to me to use a colon in the manner you did. The reader doesn’t expect a sentence to continue on the other side of the colon. When I come to the verb “were” in that sentence, I’m surprised, because I’m not expecting to find a verb there, and I’m certainly not expecting to connect the verb to a word before the colon, because the punctuation doesn’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/31 "2005-08-11T13:48:07Z")
Well, I was about to start a thread asking how to use it. Now, however, I will simply bump this thread, so that I can show that at least I tried to understand the concept. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250/32 "2005-08-11T15:04:35Z")
The semicolon has **two** principal uses, which are very well illustrated by **Cliffy** ’s and **John Buckwld** ’s posts. The use of the **colon** in joining two independent clauses is very rare but important when it does occur. The second clause must be the logical explanation of the first, as though, standing by itself, it were “a list of one thing.” “This led him to propound his famous law: The force of an action causes an equal reaction.” The compound-by-semicolon sentence should include **brief, related** clauses. “He raged; she went stony-faced; the children cried.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-good-time-to-use-the-semicolon-in-the-crafting-of-a-sentence/305250.md?page=1)