# a guild holds an e-funeral for a member who died IRL. Then another guild crashes it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2006, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840 "2006-03-25T07:31:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/161 "2006-04-07T01:17:18Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > To follow up, it’s sickening, but most (? arguable, I guess) people would harm other people just for shits and giggles if given the chance. t. I don’t think so. For gain? maybe. But for fun? I doubt most _adults_ would harm other people for fun, because they wouldn’t find harming people fun… But maybe I’m the deluded optimist, here… ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRamenMonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/162 "2006-04-07T01:18:35Z")
And to everyone saying “They should have known it was coming, there were in a PVP zone!”, how do you feel about attacking real-life funerals in a war zone? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/163 "2006-04-07T01:35:15Z")
Woops, I resurrected a week-dead thread. Sorry. I was reading a bunch of new threads, and one deadish one, and forgot that it was deadish before I posted. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/164 "2006-04-07T01:46:51Z")
Nah, it’s good **Beef**. I saw this thread a while back and wanted to comment, but I forgot about it until now. The way I see it, if you don’t want people playing the game the way it’s intended, you should probably piss off and find another game. I’ve had too many damn games ruined by people wanting to enforce their own little quirks. No Rush. No AWP. No UCB camping. Fuck that. We all paid for the same game and that’s what we’re going to play. I don’t play WoW anymore, but I know if people were allowed to have unassailable events in PvP areas on PvP servers, I’d be wondering what the hell I signed on to a PvP server for. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/165 "2006-04-07T01:56:25Z")
> [@FlyingRamenMonster](#): > > And to everyone saying “They should have known it was coming, there were in a PVP zone!”, how do you feel about attacking real-life funerals in a war zone? Hrm… makebelieve game with elves riding wolves… war zone with real people dying due to real bullets… hmmm… Nope, I don’t see any difference. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRamenMonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/166 "2006-04-07T02:06:31Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Hrm… makebelieve game with elves riding wolves… war zone with real people dying due to real bullets… hmmm… > > Nope, I don’t see any difference. Imaginary elves don’t preclude the honour system. Anyway, there _was_ a real death. The player’s. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/167 "2006-04-07T02:19:38Z")
> [@FlyingRamenMonster](#): > > Imaginary elves don’t preclude the honour system. Yes, they do. If you join a game all about killing other characters, then you can be expected to kill other characters. Especially if it’s a roleplaying type game where you’re expected to play a role. As much as folks would like to argue, this was in a video game, not real life. The rules of the video game apply, not real life. > [@FlyingRamenMonster](#): > > Anyway, there _was_ a real death. The player’s. Mmm hmmm… because nobody, ever, has faked their death on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/168 "2006-04-07T02:41:18Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > Nah, it’s good **Beef**. I saw this thread a while back and wanted to comment, but I forgot about it until now. > > The way I see it, if you don’t want people playing the game the way it’s intended, you should probably piss off and find another game. I’ve had too many damn games ruined by people wanting to enforce their own little quirks. No Rush. No AWP. No UCB camping. Fuck that. We all paid for the same game and that’s what we’re going to play. I don’t play WoW anymore, but I know if people were allowed to have unassailable events in PvP areas on PvP servers, I’d be wondering what the hell I signed on to a PvP server for. I understand your perspective. But this isn’t a case of “well I’m just gonna ignore your requests to change the game” - that is, they didn’t just happen to stumble upon it, be asked to leave, and then refused. Rather, they specifically sought out a situation where they could be assholes - rather than simply not changing the way they play, they went out of their way specifically to do this. I’m not really taking any stance on this issue other than to say that the motivations of the people who instigated this were entirely consistant with internet assholery and nerd psuedopower. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/169 "2006-04-07T02:45:45Z")
Well, the thing is, I think that virtually everybody who’s posted in this thread has agreed that the SN guild were jerks. The question, then, seems to be how much jerkitude is allowed in a PvP game. And, of course, how appropriate it is to hold a ‘funeral’ for someone who may or may not be dead, and use said PvP game as the venue. As for motivation, I think that’s hard to tell. I mean, heck, anybody playing a MMORPG is, officially, a nerd. And I say that as a proud veteran of Diablo II 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/170 "2006-04-07T03:10:46Z")
Someone in an online column (it may have been at GameSpy) made the excellent point that the vast majority of FPS games stop becoming “Fun” for new people about a month after they’re released, because a dedicated group of “Hardcore” gamers (who clearly have no jobs or social life) spend every waking hour on the game, learning the map, learning RocketJumping techniques, learning all the "tricks"and what have you, meaning those of us who just play games because they’re _fun_ end up getting “pwned” thoroughly by these “Hardcore” gamers, endlessly- time after time. I don’t know about you, but I didn’t pay money for Counterstrike: Source so I could be subject to “OMG 1 pwned u! UR t3h suxx0r!!lol!!11!” every time I get picked off by some 14 year old who’s camping somewhere with the Accuracy International sniper rifle (AKA “AWP”), or to get blown up while spawning in BattleField: 1942 by some guy who says it’s a “valid tactic” to plant explosives everywhere and set them off whenever anyone respawns, preventing them from ever actually being able to back onto the battlefield. Those little “Quirks”, as you say, take some of the power away from the campers/“Hardcore” gamers and give the rest of us- you know, people who DON’T live on _t3h intarwebs_- a chance to enjoy the game we paid good money for as well. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRamenMonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/171 "2006-04-07T03:17:22Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Yes, they do. If you join a game all about killing other characters, then you can be expected to kill other characters. Especially if it’s a roleplaying type game where you’re expected to play a role. > > As much as folks would like to argue, this was in a video game, not real life. The rules of the video game apply, not real life. > > Mmm hmmm… because nobody, ever, has faked their death on the internet. SDMB members have died. You want me to piss on their memorial threads because WAIT! THEY MIGHT NOT BE DEAD? :rolleyes: People fake deaths online all the time. Thing is though, they tend not to be very successful unless they actually are dead. People tend to pop up and verify or disprove the death. If the funeral-trashing attracted so much attention and they guy has not yet been revealed to be alive, I’m happy to conclude that he is, in fact, dead. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/172 "2006-04-07T03:22:55Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > IBut this isn’t a case of “well I’m just gonna ignore your requests to change the game” - that is, they didn’t just happen to stumble upon it, be asked to leave, and then refused. Rather, they specifically sought out a situation where they could be assholes On a PvP server, World of Warcraft is a war game, essentially; the two sides are perpetually in a state of open war. The Horde players announced a time and place they would be open to attack. The Alliance players took advantage in rather spectacular fashion. That’s the entire purpose of the game. If SN are a bunch of jackasses, well, I have no idea if they are or not. Their ACTIONS were wholly appropriate in the game universe. Some people play World of Warcraft to kill other players, some to get levels. Some people play it obsessively; some, like me, might get in 30-45 minutes a day if I’m lucky. Some people play it just to blow off some steam. Frankly, WHY other people play the game isn’t my business and I couldn’t care less, so WHY those guys decided to form a posse and wipe out the funeral is not my concern. What matters to me is whether or not people play the game fairly, and those actions were one hundred percent polyunsaturated A-OK. You find someone on the other side exposed, you kill them; that’s the way it works. If they announce where they plan to stand around exposed to attack, well, I guess that’s the way the cookie crumbles when you give away such juicy intelligence. Loose lips sink ships and all that. The attackers didn’t do anything generally considered unfair; didn’t camp anyone’s spawn point, didn’t run around a newbie area ganking level 3s, didn’t steal anything, didn’t use a game exploit or bug, didn’t screw up a raid, didn’t spam the zone’s chat channels with obscene or idiotic crap. They played the game fairly and well. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/173 "2006-04-07T03:35:24Z")
> [@FlyingRamenMonster](#): > > SDMB members have died. You want me to piss on their memorial threads because WAIT! THEY MIGHT NOT BE DEAD? :rolleyes: I’ll see your :rolleyes: and raise you a :dubious:. Analogy is always suspect. When you try to equate a message board whose guiding rules are the fight against ignorance, and the Prime Directive of “don’t be a jerk”, with a game _specifically_ designed to have players fighting players, your entire argument breaks down. > [@FlyingRamenMonster](#): > > People fake deaths online all the time. Thing is though, they tend not to be very successful unless they actually are dead. And your evidence for this, is? It’s perfectly possible to get bored with a message board/game/social situation that crops up around same, and “die”. There’s also the fact that a memorial thread on the Dope would be within the scope of the community, while a memorial thread in a game dedicated to players whomping on other players would not. And, even if it were, what’s the proper roleplaying reaction to a group of your enemies gathering in one place? > [@FlyingRamenMonster](#): > > People tend to pop up and verify or disprove the death. If the funeral-trashing attracted so much attention and they guy has not yet been revealed to be alive, I’m happy to conclude that he is, in fact, dead. Until I see the obit I’ll remain unconvinced. It’s easy enough to log off of a server and simply not log back on. Moreoever, again, it was not the proper venue for a memorial service. ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/174 "2006-04-07T03:37:08Z")
If the horde players hadn’t’ve put up a very large thread in the forums telling the alliance players when and where they were going to be doing this shit, then I’d have a fair bit more sympathy for them. From what I could see, it was mostly a guild-only thing. There was no need to post it on the general realm forums. Most guilds have their own webpage for this sort of crap, plus the Horde Only city chat could have been used to notify other people who may have been interested. The Horde players basically said “We’ll be here at this time, unprepared and unarmed in a PvP flagged area. Pls don’t hurt us, mkay?”. They might as well’ve painted targets on their faces and asses. The fact of the matter is that combat in WoW isn’t about honourable tactics. There’s no geneva convention to tell people what is and isn’t kosher when it comes to combat. You gank the other guy, preferably from behind or from a large distance away, so you can get his ass down before he has a chance to hurt you. Again - _IF_ said deceased player was really deceased, and this wasn’t just a convoluted publicity stunt in the manner of Leeeeroy Jenkins, then yes the Alliance guild acted like a bunch of grade-A bungholes. But it doesn’t change the fact that there were many ways the Horde could have avoided this situation, not least of all by just moving this thing out of a friggin’ PvP zone, and not advertising it all over the forums. No sympathy here. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRamenMonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/175 "2006-04-07T03:48:54Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I’ll see your :rolleyes: and raise you a :dubious:. > > Analogy is always suspect. When you try to equate a message board whose guiding rules are the fight against ignorance, and the Prime Directive of “don’t be a jerk”, with a game _specifically_ designed to have players fighting players, your entire argument breaks down. The game _isn’t_ specifically designed to have players fighting players. The _area_ was, but I’ll address that later. > [@](#): > > And your evidence for this, is? > It’s perfectly possible to get bored with a message board/game/social situation that crops up around same, and “die”. There’s also the fact that a memorial thread on the Dope would be within the scope of the community, while a memorial thread in a game dedicated to players whomping on other players would not. > > And, even if it were, what’s the proper roleplaying reaction to a group of your enemies gathering in one place? It depends. Is your roleplaying character an asshole? I’ve been on lots of places where people claimed to be dead. Sometimes they were dead. Sometimes they weren’t. Once the announcements drag on for long enough, you _can_ tell the difference. > [@](#): > > Until I see the obit I’ll remain unconvinced. It’s easy enough to log off of a server and simply not log back on. Moreoever, again, it was not the proper venue for a memorial service. If they only knew each other through WoW, then WoW is the best place to hold the service. The area, if I recall, was the dead player’s favourite place. They were putting themselves at risk, but that doesn’t make the attackers any less callous. Even if the guy turns out to not be dead, the vast majority of the people at the service _think_ he is dead, so attacking the service is completely inappropriate no matter which way you look at it. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/176 "2006-04-07T04:22:51Z")
> [@FlyingRamenMonster](#): > > The game _isn’t_ specifically designed to have players fighting players. The _area_ was, but I’ll address that later. It’s a PvP server. There are PvE servers. This was not one of those servers. Thus, they were on a server designed to have players fighting players. > [@FlyingRamenMonster](#): > > It depends. Is your roleplaying character an asshole? Yeah… he’s not one of the mean elves riding wolves who go around looking for puny players to gank on the PvP server. He brings them candy. > [@FlyingRamenMonster](#): > > If they only knew each other through WoW, then WoW is the best place to hold the service. What type of culture of entitlement is this? Other people pay perfectly good money to log onto a PvP server and play it in a PvP manner. Their desire to hold a non-game event in-game, that’s contrary to the spirit of the game on that server, does not trump the paying customers’. > [@FlyingRamenMonster](#): > > The area, if I recall, was the dead player’s favourite place. And as I stated up thread, they were perfectly within their rights to take a screen capture and post their thoughts on a seperate webpage. That way they could even moderate the content without getting in the way of other peoples’ games. But, again, their weird sense of entitlement does not trump players who are using the game as it’s actually intended to be used. > [@FlyingRamenMonster](#): > > They were putting themselves at risk, but that doesn’t make the attackers any less callous. Even if the guy turns out to not be dead, the vast majority of the people at the service _think_ he is dead, so attacking the service is completely inappropriate no matter which way you look at it. Nope. It’s only “completely inappropriate” if you think that you’re somehow better than the people who are actually playing the game, and that you’re entitled to disrupt their game in order to satisfy your own selfish out-of-game desires. There is a proper place and a proper time for a memorial. “Wherever and whenever I feel like it cuz I’m so speeeecial” aint it. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/177 "2006-04-07T05:21:08Z")
So is there _any_ penalty for being killed in a PvP server in WoW. Because it sounds like there isn’t and shouldn’t that make this a non-issue? Or, as someone else said, like a bitchin’ scene out of The Godfather? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/178 "2006-04-07T05:36:33Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > What type of culture of entitlement is this? Other people pay perfectly good money to log onto a PvP server and play it in a PvP manner. Their desire to hold a non-game event in-game, that’s contrary to the spirit of the game on that server, does not trump the paying customers’. > … > > But, again, their weird sense of entitlement does not trump players who are using the game as it’s actually intended to be used. Again, it’s not like someone stumbled upon this and they asked them to leave. The people specifically sought out to cause people harm because they thought they were vulnerable - specifically labelling themselvs proudly as assholes. To take the paintball analogy further, it’s as if a bunch of guys went off to a far off section of the field, and asked people in advance not to disturb them. If someone comes across them, and shoots them with paintballs - then absolutely, they’re just refusing to change what they’re doing. They’re playing the game. However, if someone sees the ad in the paper announcing this event, and then goes to the paint ball field that day specifically to terrorize it, that’s a different case. That person is specifically seeking to disrupt that situation, and not just go on with their normal gameplay experience. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/179 "2006-04-07T05:37:34Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > So is there _any_ penalty for being killed in a PvP server in WoW. > > Because it sounds like there isn’t and shouldn’t that make this a non-issue? Or, as someone else said, like a bitchin’ scene out of The Godfather? It’s a non-issue in terms of causing harm to in-game characters, yes. The whole point is that it’s the nerd equivelant to going to a funeral and shitting on a corpse - it was the intended emotional harm that’s the issue, rather than the game character harm. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840/180 "2006-04-07T05:42:54Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It’s a non-issue in terms of causing harm to in-game characters, yes. The whole point is that it’s the nerd equivelant to going to a funeral and shitting on a corpse - it was the intended emotional harm that’s the issue, rather than the game character harm. So then there’s zero penalty to in-game characters? Then these funeralgoers need to suck it up and realize that maybe they shouldn’t have advertised their funeral to the enemy. If they’ll just wake up again tomorrow as if nothing ever happened then what would stop the raiders from raiding the funeral? Penalties for what they did, that’s what. And if there’s no form of retribution in-game (which there would be if there were penalties for being killed, I gar-on-tee) then this whole thing should be a non-issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-guild-holds-an-e-funeral-for-a-member-who-died-irl-then-another-guild-crashes-it/349840.md?page=10)