# A Hallmark card to Iraq: Sorry we blew up your country **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 22, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837 "2003-10-22T03:33:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837/21 "2003-10-22T16:29:20Z")
Hamsters are wreaking havoc with the timing of my posts. My mistake on the 87, let’s call it, like you said, 20,000,000,000. Should we as a matter of policy just write that off since, according to your cited article, we’ll have little chance of ever seeing it again? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837/22 "2003-10-22T17:27:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lieu \* > They can’t pay for it now but shouldn’t a portion of future revenues above and beyond what’s needed to bring their country back up to at least 2nd world status be used to repay some of the enormous investment the US is having to make in their infrastructure? Nobody asked the US to invade and, as long as it is the occupying power it is responsible for running the country, maintaining law and order and keeping things running. The Iraqi people do not have their own government. There is a puppet council subject to the USA. They do not have the freedom to accept or reject the terms. It is bad enough that foreigners are running their country, and pretty badly too, but it would amount to theft if they were forced to repay anything. A guy comes and puts a gun to your head and “sells” you a car and makes you sign promissory notes for the next 20 years. The car can be a great car but the fact is you did not ask for it. If America wants to run Iraq it should pay the bill. If not, then it should get the hell out and let the Iraqi people free to apply for loans where ever they prefer. It seems there is no shortage of countries willing to help if the USA would just get off its high horse. President Bush is right. The idea of asking Iraq to pay is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837/23 "2003-10-22T18:29:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lieu \* > \*\* > Should we as a matter of policy just write that off since, according to your cited article, we’ll have little chance of ever seeing it again? \*\* Well, since we have little chance of seeing it again, what’s the difference? We get to look like we’re doing something good, and we avoid looking like there could be ulterior motives in the recon. Since we’re very inlikely to get the money back, (except that we’ll get to tax the companies that we give the contracts to, and their American employees), why not at least avoid the appearance of evil? Too bad we, the American electorate, didn’t have this discussion about the costs _before_ the invasion. The numbers were available. I wonder why this didn’t receive that much attention. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837/24 "2003-10-22T19:28:58Z")
Actually that was more of a rhetorical question than it sounded like. Based on the figures from the article, if we’re not going to get it back we might as well make it a goodwill gesture. Lord knows we could stand a bit of a PR prop among the populace there. I guess the one thing you’d have to weigh it against is that a loan still would have some value in that it could be forgiven in the future if they complied with one of our wishes. Say they were to start heading down what we felt was the wrong direction on some issue. We could hold out the carrot of forgiving the loan if they were to comply with our stated policy. Yes we have many obligations there. I’d like to think we’re also sincere in our efforts to soon make it a much better place than it was just a year ago. A little help would be nice. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837/25 "2003-10-22T19:34:18Z")
QUOTE]\*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* \*\*[complete screaming homo mode] BARBRA! With one A! [/cshm] \*\* [/QUOTE] **one** “A”??? Must be that Canadian Metric system I’ve heard so much about. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837/26 "2003-10-22T19:38:40Z")
[ toss that up there for me, eh? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837/27 "2003-10-22T21:12:10Z")
**Moderator’s Notes:** Lib, in case there’s any confusion, we’d prefer that you not play “junior mod.” We’re currently discussing banning someone for just that infraction (among others, but you get the idea). What we’d like **everybody** to do, is simply use that “Report post to moderator” function and let us handle the problem. There’s an awful lot of griping from the membership already that rules aren’t interpreted fairly; the last thing we need is additional, and unsanctioned, interpreters. Thank you for your cooperation. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837/28 "2003-10-22T22:20:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lieu \* > \*\* > A little help would be nice. > \*\* If things don’t disentigrate into civil war or some other horror like that, I suspect that the progress will proceed exponentially. ( I think that’s the right way to say it. ) It’ll be slow starting, but the better things get, the more people who’ll jump on board. The more people who jump on board, the better things’ll get. The first part is the hardest. I fervently hope that things don’t disentigrate into something horrible. It seems we’re making progresses but that we’re also on thin ice. One report that I read today said that a US commander was worried that there were those who were deliberately trying to get our soldiers to over-react. Those poor fellas are most likely being baited. If I had a hat, I’d doff it to them. ---
**Author:** ![kp\_72110](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e68b1a/32.png) [@kp\_72110](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kp_72110)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837/29 "2003-10-23T04:35:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\ ***Moderator’s Notes:** > Lib, in case there’s any confusion, we’d prefer that you not play “junior mod.” We’re currently discussing banning someone for just that infraction (among others, but you get the idea). What we’d like **everybody** to do, is simply use that “Report post to moderator” function and let us handle the problem. There’s an awful lot of griping from the membership already that rules aren’t interpreted fairly; the last thing we need is additional, and unsanctioned, interpreters. > > Thank you for your cooperation. \*\* Beer, he called me on something that I thought was wrong too. I just didn’t think it was wrong in my analogy. But, to imply what I did, wasn’t right. Ted Kennedy should still be able to consume vodka! Seriously, that wasn’t a nice thing to say. [mr rogers] Can you say “retraction”? I knew you could![/mr rogers] btw- Lib, you’re not so innocent either… Or are you? Did you vote for[Harry Brown?](http://www.harrybrowne2000.org/home.htm) I hope so! Or, there are other people. I’d vote for Alan Keyes before I would vote for a Bush. I’d also vote for[the best dog](http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/6042/sarge.html) in the world. So this proves I am a bear of very little knowledge. Yeah, that’s it. A special interest rate. btw- I heard on NPR this morning of the vote. Seems the re-pubs are joining the band wagon. Looks like a loan or nothing. I wonder what the odds are that it still makes you (me) pay more? Seen the S&P today? \ why do emotions rule the “free” market? Politics as usual. Carry on… more to come ---
**Author:** ![kp\_72110](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e68b1a/32.png) [@kp\_72110](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kp_72110)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837/30 "2003-10-23T05:01:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*The war was sold to us with the intimation that _oil revenues_ would pay for reconstruction. \*\* And there’s no doubt they should. But it’s hard to do that when people are trying to kill you and blowing up your lines. The oil output is still very reasonable right now (I think barely reasonable but must admit sustainable). Plus we are still experiencing casualties. Even some of the hardest critics are coming back and saying “It ain’t so bad there” (need a cite?) and yet not only are our people getting killed, each one with a family I might add, but also the very people that live there. They’re killing each other. It’s civil unrest because there is no real order. We can never make them, by our ways & means, be a western civilization. Period. By them, I simply mean a culture. Period. Am I clear? I don’t know about you, but I know people here from Iraq. They mostly came here during the Irani war. And when Iran had US hostages. The ones I know, made it clear, they were not those radicals. That’s pretty much the same for most muslims that immigrated here. They left those radical places for a reason. Where is my err? ---
**Author:** ![kp\_72110](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e68b1a/32.png) [@kp\_72110](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kp_72110)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837/31 "2003-10-23T05:12:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*The war was sold to us with the intimation that _oil revenues_ would pay for reconstruction. \*\* I heard that **after** the war. But before the war it was said it would be used mainly to sustain them? Am I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![kp\_72110](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e68b1a/32.png) [@kp\_72110](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kp_72110)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837/32 "2003-10-23T05:30:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > \*\*Do you have some recent stats on this? Last i saw there was only about a $bil in damages from the looting, but that was months ago. > > We became responsible maintaining law and order. Even though the post-war chaos was amply predicted we didn’t see fit to act in such a way as to prevent it. While the looting may not’ve been our _fault_, it is our _responsibility_. > > Since Iraq **cannot** pay for it’s own reconstruction and refurbishemnt, and since it’s our stated goal to turn iraq around into an example and role model for the rest of the ME, We’re kind of stuck with it. (Unless we admit failure, turn tail and run saying, “Oops. I guess we fucked up. Good luck folks. See ya. by the way don’t be mad.”) \*\* Should I do a search? Who would flame me if I agreed with you? You Sir, are a very formidable opponent! \ **Author:** ![kp\_72110](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e68b1a/32.png) [@kp\_72110](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kp_72110)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837/33 "2003-10-23T05:35:55Z") > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > \*\*If things don’t disentigrate into civil war or some other horror like that, I suspect that the progress will proceed exponentially. ( I think that’s the right way to say it. ) It’ll be slow starting, but the better things get, the more people who’ll jump on board. The more people who jump on board, the better things’ll get. The first part is the hardest. > I fervently hope that things don’t disentigrate into something horrible. It seems we’re making progresses but that we’re also on thin ice. > One report that I read today said that a US commander was worried that there were those who were deliberately trying to get our soldiers to over-react. Those poor fellas are most likely being baited. > If I had a hat, I’d doff it to them. \*\* Why does it seem more Iraqi’s are jumping off-board? I think it’s just what we hear. Propoganda? What? Media? I don’t get it. Sorry. Kp \more to come ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837/34 "2003-10-23T06:20:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kp\_72110 \* > \*\*I heard that **after** the war. But before the war it was said it would be used mainly to sustain them? Am I wrong? \*\* “We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon.” – Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, in front of Congress, March 27. ---
**Author:** ![kp\_72110](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e68b1a/32.png) [@kp\_72110](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kp_72110)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837/35 "2003-10-23T07:47:32Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by leander \* \*\*“We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon.” – Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, in front of Congress, March 27. \*\*[/QUOTE This maybe true. Again I say… Consider the congress. More then that, the people. Your religion is no better then mine. Stop hating each other and work it out you fucking ass holes. Kp The alternative is not so good. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837/36 "2003-10-23T15:46:26Z")
\*\* kp\_72110\*\*: I understand your vehement opposition to current U.S. policy. I, too, share that opposition, and do not even have your (assumed) patriotism to diminish it. That said, are statements like this… > [@](#): > > It’s too bad the 9/11 hijackers didn’t focus their attention more on capitol hill. We really need to just get rid of the entire congress and start over. It’s no wonder the entire world hates us. From the white house down, nothing but jack-asses. …really necessary? Politicians are people too. They don’t deserve death, no matter how bad their mistakes (or even their malicious errors). Not to mention the innocent staff who have nothing to do with the political process. People killing other people isn’t a good thing. Why wish terrorism on people when it isn’t necessary. That said, your OP contains many valid points. It was a mistake to invade Iraq in the manner the U.S. did. Regardless, it’s been done, and now the U.S. needs to do what it can to help Iraq out of the hole Saddam dug it in to, and which the U.S. blew an extra chunk out of. The U.S took on the responsibility, and it’s up to them to make it right. I can’t criticise your desire to move to Canada. Maybe the weather’s really great up there. But, if you love a country, you try to fix it. I’d certainly hope that you devote yr energy to mking the U.S. a better place than to getting yourself out of there. Though, I do hear Montreal’s a pretty cool city. ---
**Author:** ![bernse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837/37 "2003-10-23T17:30:49Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by kp\_72110 \* > \*\* > I’m going to run away to Canada. Fuck this fucked up fucking goddamn partisan fucking fucked up place. It’s getting very tiresome._\* Let me know when you’re coming and which crossing you’re going to use, _mmm’kay?_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hallmark-card-to-iraq-sorry-we-blew-up-your-country/208837.md?page=1)