# A Hateful Curse On BP **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 1, 2010, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941 "2010-05-01T01:09:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/61 "2010-05-01T13:36:32Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Doesn’t BP only own the well? Wouldn’t the real blame lie with TransOcean? Or possibly Halliburton? > > Doesn’t TransOcean own the rig, all equipment, all safety devices, all the employees, training, etc? No, as stated before, BP commissioned the well and as principal operator it and, to a lesser extent, its risk-sharing partners on the project (Anadarko and a company known as MOEX) share joint responsibility for the outcome. It is up to the operator to carry out due diligence on the design of the well, and for offshore operations of this type, the operator has to file quite a lot of paperwork with the MMS describing the engineering design of the well and certifying that the safety systems and procedures meet industry and regulatory standards. This appears to have been done. Now, a very big potential problem here is that the MMS has to some extent gone along with industry-proposed standards for deepwater operations, mainly because these are on the edge of viable technology and there is not necessarily a large amount of data on the types of failures that may occur. The situation is somewhat analogous to that of the crashes of De Havilland Comet airliners of the 1950s, where the issue of metal fatigue in aircraft structures was not well understood. Here (so far as I can tell from limited info), the well was engineered, and the BOP stack was rigged up in such a way that the systems should have worked properly, based on available data. Regarding Transocean and Halliburton, both were contracted by BP to assist in constructing a hole to BP’s specifications and absent contrary information I have no reason to believe they did not do so. IANAL, of course, but in my experience potential liability for service contractors rests on being able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they either carried out their jobs negligently, or outright falsified safety-critical information. There is no current indication that either of these things occurred, although the results of investigation may change this. Some liability to Transocean could ensue if, for example, it could be shown the drilling crew failed to notice the warning signs of a kick (there are several possible indicators), or defects in the rig abandonment procedure could be shown to have resulted in the deaths that occurred. Without knowing the details of the cement job that may have contributed to the disaster, I don’t care to comment on what role Halliburton may eventually play in all this. Something people need to realize is that the risk of a kick, as I described earlier, is present on nearly all wells drilled for oil and gas, and that some small percentage of kicks develop into blowouts regardless of how many safety systems are in place. What makes this one such a massive clusterfuck is the technical difficulty of shutting off flow on a wellhead that is one mile down, that has several hundred thousand pounds of damaged equipment sitting atop it, and is apparently leaking from several points along thousands of feet of pipe that dropped to the seabed when the rig sank. I’m sorry to have to say this, but right now the best hope is that the well ‘bridges off’ (plugs itself from sand and rock caried up in the flow) on its own. If flow cannot be brought under control until the completion of a relief well (which will take at least several weeks or months to drill) this really will be an unprecedented catastrophe. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/62 "2010-05-01T13:38:25Z")
I imagine the unspoken thought at BP right this moment is, “Oh woes! Look at all that lovely oil going to waste!” ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/63 "2010-05-01T13:53:57Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I imagine the unspoken thought at BP right this moment is, “Oh woes! Look at all that lovely oil going to waste!” Dude, I know some of the people that work for BP in Houston, and your cartoonish view, while understandable, is just that: a cartoon. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/64 "2010-05-01T13:54:39Z")
But it’s not going to waste. It’s killing a huge swathe of wildlife! That’s gotta count for something. In fact, by bypassing the middlemen (Joe Q Public and their attendant SUVs), it’s really a much more efficient form of planetfucking than climate change. I don’t know why they don’t spill oil more often. Oh, and the ‘Ecoterrorists would be very silly to…’ argument, reminds me of Ben Elton’s _This Other Eden_ that I recently reread. they engineered all the oil spills to generate publicity for their cause. ETA: oh, El\_Kabong snuck in there. You want cartoonish views? You got cartoonish views! (not seriously held) ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/65 "2010-05-01T14:01:00Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Dude, I know some of the people that work for BP in Houston, and your cartoonish view, while understandable, is just that: a cartoon. Oh, STFU! Having seen one of their representative employees on the tv, trying to deflect blame already, and making out they are doing the world a big favour by applying all their resources to the clean-up - of a mess caused by their prioritising on getting the stuff out of the ground, and not on what might happen if accidents occurred - I can only say they are getting no sympathy from me. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/66 "2010-05-01T14:11:05Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Oh, STFU! > > Having seen one of their representative employees on the tv, trying to deflect blame already, and making out they are doing the world a big favour by applying all their resources to the clean-up - of a mess caused by their prioritising on getting the stuff out of the ground, and not on what might happen if accidents occurred - I can only say they are getting no sympathy from me. I am not requesting sympathy for BP employees, I am merely pointing out that things are not as simple as you would like to believe. Vent all you want, however, no problem. As for shutting the fuck up, OTOH, I won’t be taking any orders from you. Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/67 "2010-05-01T14:21:31Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > What makes this one such a massive clusterfuck is the technical difficulty of shutting off flow on a wellhead that is one mile down, that has several hundred thousand pounds of damaged equipment sitting atop it… Sounds like a job for a nuke, though I suppose it’d be political suicide for anyone to authorize such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/68 "2010-05-01T14:24:03Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Sounds like a job for a nuke, though I suppose it’d be political suicide for anyone to authorize such a thing. How would that work exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/69 "2010-05-01T14:26:25Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > How would that work exactly? It wouldn’t. It would just make things massively worse. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/70 "2010-05-01T14:27:26Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Yeah, it sucks when bad things happen. Bad things are bad, after all. You got anything else for us, OP? > > One thing I’m wondering about is a possible terrorism link. I read something about SWAT teams going to oil rigs today but didn’t see anything else about it. How’s the exterminator business going, Dale? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/71 "2010-05-01T14:27:32Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > How would that work exactly? You got a hole in the bottom of the sea. If you move half a million tons of dirt, rock and silt over the top of it, it won’t be a hole anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/72 "2010-05-01T14:29:25Z")
Just to add to what El\_Kabong was saying. I’m a drilling engineer and was in a drilling school in southern Lafayette this week so this was extensivly discussed. From what we were told, based on people who’s companies were involved. The cement that was pumped was lightened with nitrogen and the kick traveled up the well outside of the casing through the cement job. The top of the casing normally has seals to prevent this type of kick but for the particular wellhead that was used required a seperate trip from running the casing to engage the seals. During the time it took to circulate out the exisiting cement and trip out of the hole, as well as some things that had to be done on surface, the kick was able to travel through the cement and into the wellbore. There were two theories about what happened next either the rate of gas expansion was fast enought to cut the seals on the subsea BOPE or due to the relativly short distance to surface the well blewout and killed the rig crew before they could respond, most of the missing came from the floor crew and personel responsable for shutting in the well. Either way there was no way to stop the blowout at that point. BP is not a company known for cutting corners so I’d be surprised if this ends up being because of an economic decision rather then either poor data or a bad design. A lot of work goes into predicting pore pressures but there a lot of variables and all of the modles only give fair approximations. I’ll be around to help answer any questions that I can. As long as my spelling and grammer don’t offend you too badly I’m on my phone flying home today. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/73 "2010-05-01T14:40:11Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > From what we were told, based on people who’s companies were involved. The cement that was pumped was lightened with nitrogen and the kick traveled up the well outside of the casing through the cement job Just suggesting, you might want to explain why a nitrogen injection technique would be used in this case. I’m guessing to avoid losses to formation, right? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/74 "2010-05-01T14:40:57Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > From what we were told, based on people who’s companies were involved. The cement that was pumped was lightened with nitrogen and the kick traveled up the well outside of the casing through the cement job. A little intro to foam cements: [Applications of Foam Cement](http://www.onepetro.org/mslib/servlet/onepetropreview?id=00011203&soc=SPE) Halliburton’s many [Foam Cement Systems](http://www.halliburton.com/ps/default.aspx?navid=204&pageid=98&prodgrpid=MSE%3A%3A1045857683047808) ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/75 "2010-05-01T14:49:37Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Just suggesting, you might want to explain why a nitrogen injection technique would be used in this case. I’m guessing to avoid losses to formation, right? > [@Squink](#): > > A little intro to foam cements: [Applications of Foam Cement](http://www.onepetro.org/mslib/servlet/onepetropreview?id=00011203&soc=SPE) > > Halliburton’s many [Foam Cement Systems](http://www.halliburton.com/ps/default.aspx?navid=204&pageid=98&prodgrpid=MSE%3A%3A1045857683047808) Sorry about any confusion. Nitrofied cements are used for two reasons one is to insure that the weight of the cement collum doesn’t exceede the formation striength. The second is so that in deviated wells the cement is more likely to fill the entire hole rather then laying on the low side of the hole, creating channels to flow through. I am not familiar enough with gulf coast drilling to say which is more likely. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/76 "2010-05-01T14:54:26Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > You got a hole in the bottom of the sea. If you move half a million tons of dirt, rock and silt over the top of it, it won’t be a hole anymore. 1. How do you know it would work? 2. Are you sure it won’t make things worse? 3. Why not use conventional explosives? It _is_ a distinctly American way to solve a problem, no? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/77 "2010-05-01T14:57:35Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > 1. How do you know it would work? > 2. Are you sure it won’t make things worse? > 3. Why not use conventional explosives? > > It _is_ a distinctly American way to solve a problem, no? 😉 _Insert obligatory Aliens quote here_ ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/78 "2010-05-01T15:02:45Z")
Then again it’s been done before. Not on purpose but still . . . > **[Operation Crosstie](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Crosstie?wasRedirected=true)** > > Download coordinates as: > Operation Crosstie was a series of 48 nuclear tests conducted by the United States in 1967–1968 at the Nevada Test Site. These tests followed the Operation Latchkey series and preceded the Operation Bowline series. > The blast designated Gasbuggy involved an underground detonation, intended to stimulate production of natural gas by cracking the rock in the underground formation of its deposit. The test proceeded as expected, but not only did the production not increase ... ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/79 "2010-05-01T15:26:40Z")
I believe there are treaties that prevent underwater nuclear blasts. Maybe the world community would give a pass in this instance, but that is hardly the start of it. What if the hole were triangulated with conventional buried explosives, simultaneously detonated? If the crust is thick enough, it might plug the hole. The other possibility I see is the creation of an enormous underwater oil-leaking sieve. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941/80 "2010-05-01T15:33:43Z")
Thanks **El Kabong** and **Oredigger**. Very informative, if depressing, reading. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hateful-curse-on-bp/537941.md?page=5)