# A healthy challenge for intellectual honesty: good and unconstitutional; constitutional and bad **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 17, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874 "2016-10-17T20:57:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/1 "2016-10-17T20:57:42Z")
Here’s the challenge (and hopefully fodder for debate): Name one policy that you believe is a great idea but is unconstitutional, and one policy that you believe is a terrible idea that is constitutional. _For the purposes of this thread, “constitutional” means you believe it is allowed under the U.S. Constitution, regardless of what courts have actually decided._ **Good and unconstitutional** : Donor disclosure requirements for campaign spending **Bad and constitutional** : Federal prohibition on the personal use of marijuana ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/2 "2016-10-17T21:03:12Z")
I’ll agree with your good and unconstitutional. For me, bad and constitutional would be both the income tax and the direct election of Senators. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/3 "2016-10-17T22:28:51Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Here’s the challenge (and hopefully fodder for debate): **Good and unconstitutional** : Banning Scientology, Neo-Nazis and the KKK **Bad and constitutional** : Discrimination against LGBT people ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/4 "2016-10-17T22:36:15Z")
I think most people understand that “unconstitutional” is not a synonym for “bad.” Slavery was once perfectly constitutional. When communities on both the left/right discuss a topic and someone points out a proposal is unconstitutional it’s usually brushed aside as a minor impediment, assumed that at some future time there will be enough popular support for amendments. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/5 "2016-10-17T23:26:22Z")
**Good and unconstitutional:** What does it mean if I can’t think of anything? **Bad and constitutional** : ACA mandate as a tax. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/6 "2016-10-18T01:23:52Z")
**Good and unconstitutional:** Laws regulating gun ownership (not sure exactly what they are, but I’m thinking along the lines of what other countries do that don’t have the equivalent of our 2nd amendment). **Bad and constitutional:** In God We Trust on our currency. Also, I’ll see your marijuana and raise you cocaine. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/7 "2016-10-18T01:49:57Z")
Bad and constitutional: _Kelo v. New London_-style takings. Good and unconstitutional: prohibition of abortion. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/8 "2016-10-18T01:56:27Z")
**Good and unconstitutional** : Make everyone obey me as undisputed King of America **Bad and constitutional** : Private, for-profit prisons ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/9 "2016-10-18T03:58:37Z")
**Good and unconstitutional** : Third term for Obama **Bad and constitutional** : First term for Trump /thread ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/10 "2016-10-18T04:32:43Z")
**Good and unconstitutional:** Term limits on Congress. **Bad and constitutional:** The tax code. All four million words of it. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/11 "2016-10-18T05:40:27Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > **Good and unconstitutional** : Make everyone obey me as undisputed King of America You misspelled “bad.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/12 "2016-10-18T07:43:50Z")
(maybe not the best or worst things, but I think my top answers were already given, so I’m trying to be a bit different here) Good and unconstitutional: Poll tax (the 24th Amendment kind) Bad and constitutional: The feds owning 65% of Utah (and similar percentages in other Western states) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/13 "2016-10-18T11:46:10Z")
Some very interesting ones. To kick the challenge up a notch, you should try it with policies that are in active dispute in 2016. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/14 "2016-10-18T12:25:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > **Bad and constitutional:** In God We Trust on our currency. > Also, I’ll see your marijuana and raise you cocaine. I’ll see your marijuana and cocaine. See you! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/15 "2016-10-18T13:05:02Z")
Good and un-Constitutional; _Roe v. Wade_. Bad and Constitutional: Hate crime laws. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/16 "2016-10-18T13:13:01Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Some very interesting ones. > > To kick the challenge up a notch, you should try it with policies that are in active dispute in 2016. Bad and constitutional: Race based admission policies at state colleges. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/17 "2016-10-18T13:46:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Good and un-Constitutional; _Roe v. Wade_. > > Bad and Constitutional: Hate crime laws. These are impressive. I reckon very few people would list those policies in those slots. I award you 100 intellectual honesty points. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Bad and constitutional: Race based admission policies at state colleges. This is also a pretty unusual one. I think very few people believe affirmative action is allowed under the Equal Protection Clause, but that it’s bad. I award you 50 points. > [@Bricker](#): > > Good and unconstitutional: prohibition of abortion. Wait, what? You think _Casey/Roe_ are (at least partially) correctly decided? Or am I misreading? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/18 "2016-10-18T14:38:56Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > This is also a pretty unusual one. I think very few people believe affirmative action is allowed under the Equal Protection Clause, but that it’s bad. I award you 50 points. I’m afraid I cannot accept those points. I forgot the part about the OP where we had to believe it was in the constitution regardless of the how the SCOTUS ruled. I was going by current jurisprudence, not my own reading of the causation. I think some others may have made the same mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/19 "2016-10-18T16:02:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m afraid I cannot accept those points. I forgot the part about the OP where we had to believe it was in the constitution regardless of the how the SCOTUS ruled. I was going by current jurisprudence, not my own reading of the causation. I think some others may have made the same mistake. 25 intellectual honesty points for admitting your mistaken interpretation! I’ll add some more… \*\* Good and un-constitutional\*\*: Required _Miranda_ warnings **Bad and constitutional** : Excluding refugees from countries impacted by certain levels of terrorism ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874/20 "2016-10-18T16:20:07Z")
Good and unconstitutional: secession(according to most) Bad and constitutional: the military/standing army or judicial review [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-healthy-challenge-for-intellectual-honesty-good-and-unconstitutional-constitutional-and-bad/768874.md?page=2)