# A hook and ladder fire truck query. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 4, 2006, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979 "2006-03-04T00:05:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/1 "2006-03-04T00:05:14Z")
A bunch of fire trucks just went by, and, being fascinated by flashing red lights, I stood and watched. Everything was normal until the hook and ladder passed. There was no co-driver in the back cockpit. I’m absolutely positive. You can see into the cab quite well, and I looked very carefully because it drew my attention. It was profoundly empty. No one home, I promise. So my question is, has that function been automated? It has to some extent on articulated busses and some trucks. The trucks went straight by in front of me so I couldn’t tell what the steering wheel (which I could see _very_ clearly) would do in a turn. There were no illicit substances in my body at the time, though I think now would be a good time to change that. 😉 Remember, this is GQ. Peace, mangeorge BTW; why the hell don’t some people get out of the way of emergency vehicles? ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/2 "2006-03-04T00:30:59Z")
The City I used to work for, fazed them out some 20 years ago. I remember that the rear wheels could be locked, and the rig was then driven like any tractor/trailer rig. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/3 "2006-03-04T01:06:53Z")
> [@ltfire](#): > > The City I used to work for, fazed them out some 20 years ago. I remember that the rear wheels could be locked, and the rig was then driven like any tractor/trailer rig. Really? How do they get up to tall buildings, I wonder. But I guess the rears could be locked. It would be pretty long, though. I’ll have to think about it. Maybe pass by the local station. I wonder if the BFD has a website. ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/4 "2006-03-04T01:39:38Z")
I’m sorry. I didn’t mean that they fazed out ladder trucks, just the tillers. Straight trucks, without a rear driver, are the norm. now. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/5 "2006-03-04T02:01:59Z")
> [@ltfire](#): > > I’m sorry. I didn’t mean that they fazed out ladder trucks, just the tillers. > Straight trucks, without a rear driver, are the norm. now. I’m hardly a kid (I’m 61), but for them I’ll say “Boo”. Seeing one of those navigate had to be one of the high points of being a child. Oh well, there is Playstation. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/6 "2006-03-04T04:09:22Z")
Tiller ladders are still found in those metro areas where ultra-tight turning radii are needed, so don’t dismiss them as an anacronistic. Those who use them without cause do so because they’re cool, which causes people like me difficulty, as there is no budget category labeled “Cool”. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/7 "2006-03-04T05:43:18Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Tiller ladders are still found in those metro areas where ultra-tight turning radii are needed, so don’t dismiss them as an anacronistic. Those who use them without cause do so because they’re cool, which causes people like me difficulty, as there is no budget category labeled “Cool”. Hah! you surely don’t live here where I do. “Cool” can most definitely be a factor in budget decisions. And that’s a good thing. Here. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/8 "2006-03-04T07:02:33Z")
Yeah sadly those old “hook and ladders” are slowly being phased out. Still it’s great to see one in action, headed for a fire at high speed with the tillerman on the alert for every turn. (I always thought the phrase was tillerman. Is the correct term “tiller”?) Needless to say, when I was a kid, not only did I want to be a firefighter, but I _definitely_ wanted to be the tillerman. If I remember correctly, isn’t that steering wheel really huge and almost horizontal? Remember the Abbott and Costello movie “High Society”? It had one of the most memorable closing “chase sequences” of all time. Yes, a hook and ladder played a huge part in it. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/9 "2006-03-04T13:24:46Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > (I always thought the phrase was tillerman. Is the correct term “tiller”?) > Needless to say, when I was a kid, not only did I want to be a firefighter, but I _definitely_ wanted to be the tillerman. Yes, the guy that drives it is called a ‘tillerman’ and my son wants to be one when he grows up. There’s still a bunch in service around here, but I don’t know if they’re phasing them out or not. There’s always a tillerman on board when we see them. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/10 "2006-03-04T15:27:24Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Tiller ladders are still found in those metro areas where ultra-tight turning radii are needed, I once saw a ladder truck slip into a narrow alley in West Los Angeles with ease and at a relatively rapid pace for such a tight place. That driver and tillerman really knew how to work together. Now that was cool. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/11 "2006-03-04T17:31:01Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > BTW; why the hell don’t some people get out of the way of emergency vehicles? Sometimes they don’t notice, sometimes they’re just idiots. I imagine there are some folks out there who just don’t know what to do when emergency vehicles are coming up behind them, especially on multi-lane roads. Once saw a guy nearly get broadsided by a police cruiser because he didn’t see the cop car until he was halfway through crossing the intersection. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/12 "2006-03-04T22:07:55Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > I wonder if the BFD has a website. [http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/fire/](http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/fire/) > [@wolf\_meister](#): > > (I always thought the phrase was tillerman. Is the correct term “tiller”?) Well, now days many times the “tillerman” is a woman. So the official correct term is “tiller operator” or “tiller driver”. But it’s commonly shortened to “tiller” when used by the firefighters themselves. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/13 "2006-03-04T22:20:17Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > [Home Page: Fire Department - City of Berkeley, CA](http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/fire/) > > Well, now days many times the “tillerman” is a woman. So the official correct term is “tiller operator” or “tiller driver”. But it’s commonly shortened to “tiller” when used by the firefighters themselves. Yeah, I found that site. Not much about equipment, though. I think I’ll stop by the local station and have a look. Maybe even ask if I saw what know I saw. usually they like to talk about their stuff, but they can be a little leery if they suspect criticism. This Berkeley, after all, and firefighters do tend to be pretty conservative. 😉 mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/14 "2006-03-04T23:08:22Z")
Prior to retiring a couple years back, I was in the trucking industry and kept up w/ industry related news. I seem to recall reading about a computerized system designed to allow the trailer wheels exactly track the path of the tractor. I think this was in the R&D phase of development. I did find this article that briefly mentions what seems to be an existing mechanical system. The reference is about the middle of the page under “Articulated buses” at the end of the first paragraph. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/15 "2006-03-04T23:08:59Z")
I never knew why “Hook and Ladder” firetrucks were called that. My question was always, “Where’s the ‘hook’?” I finally found out while watching a special on the Discovery Channel on the Great Earthquake in San Francisco. Apparently the houses and other buildings were mostly wood structures and were built right next to each other. This caused the fires to spread very quickly from one building to another. The firetrucks all had large hooks connected to the frame of the truck and the fireman would attach them to the posts that held up a structure that had not yet caught on fire. The firetruck would then pull the structures down with these hooks in an attempt to create a firebreak. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/16 "2006-03-05T01:17:18Z")
> [@BiblioCat](#): > > Yes, the guy that drives it is called a ‘tillerman’ and my son wants to be one when he grows up. There’s still a bunch in service around here, but I don’t know if they’re phasing them out or not. There’s always a tillerman on board when we see them. Did you realize that their beverage preference was so well known that a pop music artist would compose an album based thereon? [Behold](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_for_the_Tillerman) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/17 "2006-03-05T02:36:57Z")
**danceswithcats** , this is waaaay out of GQ territory, but today I took the test for Probationary EMTs for Baltimore County. Yay me! Still a long way to go - interview and agility testing are next. I know a couple people with ‘pull’ who have offered to give me references, and that counts for a lot around here. At any rate, I’m very excited. I said earlier that I was happy at just the volunteer level, but the opportunity came up and it just seemed right. My little inner voice told me to go for it. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/18 "2006-03-05T07:00:18Z")
> [@BiblioCat](#): > > **danceswithcats** , this is waaaay out of GQ territory, but today I took the test for Probationary EMTs for Baltimore County. Yay me! > Still a long way to go - interview and agility testing are next. > I know a couple people with ‘pull’ who have offered to give me references, and that counts for a lot around here. > At any rate, I’m very excited. I said earlier that I was happy at just the volunteer level, but the opportunity came up and it just seemed right. My little inner voice told me to go for it. Kewl! Go you!! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Fir\_na\_tine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fir\_na\_tine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fir_na_tine)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hook-and-ladder-fire-truck-query/346979/19 "2006-03-06T18:52:56Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > I never knew why “Hook and Ladder” firetrucks were called that. My question was always, “Where’s the ‘hook’?” > > I finally found out while watching a special on the Discovery Channel on the Great Earthquake in San Francisco. Apparently the houses and other buildings were mostly wood structures and were built right next to each other. This caused the fires to spread very quickly from one building to another. The firetrucks all had large hooks connected to the frame of the truck and the fireman would attach them to the posts that held up a structure that had not yet caught on fire. The firetruck would then pull the structures down with these hooks in an attempt to create a firebreak. The phrase actually goes back much further in time to England. The hooks were used to pul down burning thatch roofs and walls. The pulling was done by hand. Most modern fire trucks carry pike poles which are still used to pull down ceilings and the like. Lengths vary from 4 to 10 feet depending on how much room you have to work with.