# A huge and mostly overlooked development: the collapse of the "evangelical" voting bloc **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 5, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970 "2016-03-05T00:05:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/1 "2016-03-05T00:05:43Z")
I \*almost \*feel sorry for these evangelical leaders. The first shock is to learn that many of their “flock” support a man they find repulsive. Then comes the deepening realization that the millions of evangelical supporters they thought they had out there are maybe just using that term without being “on the team” in any meaningful way. > **[Evangelical Leaders Question Movement's Support Of Trump](https://www.npr.org/2016/03/03/469005685/evangelical-leaders-question-why-their-movement-supports-trump)** > > The apparent depth of support for Donald Trump among evangelical voters has produced an identity crisis within that conservative world. Some are disassociating themselves from the broader community. > [@](#): > > GJELTEN: A few conservative pastors, like Jerry Falwell, Jr., have no problem with Trump, but hostility among evangelical leaders is widespread. Russell Moore from the Southern Baptist Convention announced this week that he has stopped calling himself an evangelical so as not to be associated with Trump supporters. His own explanation for why so many self-described evangelicals are in Trump’s camp - they’re not all that evangelical. > > RUSSELL MOORE: At least in the Bible Belt, someone may claim to be an evangelical who’s drunk right now and who hasn’t been to church since someone took him to vacation Bible school back in the 1980s. And so that’s not a useful category. What’s useful is finding out whether or not people are actively following Christ, whether they’re church attenders, for instance. > > GJELTEN: It may be that evangelical has become more a cultural label than a religious label. Albert Mohler of the Southern Baptist Seminary says that would mean the true evangelical block is smaller than he and others realized until now. > > MOHLER: We have taken comfort in the fact that there have been millions and millions of us in America. And a part of that evidence has been the last several election cycles, with the evangelical vote being in the millions. And now we’re having to face the fact that, evidently, theologically-defined - defined by commitment to core evangelical values - there aren’t so many millions of us as we thought. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/2 "2016-03-05T02:00:39Z")
I’m just happy I’m not the only one who has noticed. Though I do note that no one on my Facebook wall seems to support Trump. Not even that one lady who was supporting him earlier. Then again, I’m in Arkansas, one of the states that almost didn’t go for Trump. So it seems my evangelical friends and acquaintances are not representative. No wonder I’ve always had trouble understanding the Christian Right. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/3 "2016-03-05T02:25:09Z")
[QUOTE] [A huge and mostly overlooked development: the collapse of the “evangelical” voting bloc/QUOTE] From your mouth to god’s ears. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/4 "2016-03-05T02:39:59Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’m just happy I’m not the only one who has noticed. Though I do note that no one on my Facebook wall seems to support Drumpf. Not even that one lady who was supporting him earlier. Then again, I’m in Arkansas, one of the states that almost didn’t go for Drumpf. > > So it seems my evangelical friends and acquaintances are not representative. No wonder I’ve always had trouble understanding the Christian Right. I would bet that the people we know IRL who we _think of_ as evangelicals really would be the people those pastors would count also. But they were counting on poll numbers showing all these millions of others were on their side. What I’d bet is that a lot of the people padding out those poll numbers, no one who actually knows these people would ever think of them as “evangelicals”. Someone like Pew needs to try to figure out the true number, by not asking about labels but instead asking a whole bunch of questions about lifestyle, and in doing so they should try to avoid asking things that are easy for people to suss out the “good” answer (like how often they go to church). ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/5 "2016-03-05T02:41:51Z")
> [@](#): > > It may be that evangelical has become more a cultural label than a religious label. Albert Mohler of the Southern Baptist Seminary says that would mean the true evangelical block is smaller than he and others realized until now. My take: The political religious right was all along a _“cultural”_ phenomenon. Jerry Falwell and the 70s/80s Televangelists were fundamentalist, yes, but their movement’s _political alignment_ with the right wing was more a function not of the gospel but of _anticommunism and reaction to the post-1960s Culture War._ I postulate that Falwell and Falwell Jr. both were/are **first** interested in socking it to the liberal intellectuals and refighting the 1960s so \*their \*side was right all along, and \*then \*telling people that if they are for that sociopolitically, they should really look into also following their brand of evangelicalism. I mean, what, if anything, is particularly\* doctrinally Christian\* about Supply-Side Economics or union-busting or Neocon foreign intervention or nativist nationalism or guns? But you package them side by side with being against teaching evolution, against gay rights, against abortion, against the centralized state, call it all “Traditional Family Values” and you’ve got yourself some power within the Republican Party/Conservative Movement, _as long as you are a credible constituency_ which requires keeping the flock behind you. Then you seem bigger than you really are because the _socioeconomic-conservative_ politicians will run on platforms and try to enact legislation that include your \*sociocultural \*agenda as if it were that of the whole movement. But many of the footsoldiers of their movement are now really more urgently interested in seeing results at _restoring what they see as the “right” social order both domestic and international_, after 40 years of being offered up as a bloc of voters to elect a GOP that did little to achieve that. So if there’s a leader that offers a platform of America Kicking Ass \*\*\*and \*\*\*who will not make you sit through sermons (even let you drink and gamble at the resort), well… ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/6 "2016-03-05T02:44:30Z")
Points taken. But I always thought it was bound up with a really regressive and repressive sexual morality. Drumpf massively upends that supposition (although his crowd probably wouldn’t be so okay with a female candidate who was on her third marriage and had talked crudely about marital affairs so often). ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/7 "2016-03-05T02:46:05Z")
It’s another thing that’s falling apart for them. You can only spin tales for so long. This is the best thing that could happen in this best of all possible worlds. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/8 "2016-03-05T03:36:58Z")
Maybe it’s the same mistake the Republican Establishment already made with the base…they thought they wanted lower taxes on the rich, and austerity. They were wrong. They thought they wanted Jesus stuff…maybe they’re wrong again. Maybe the Republican base just really, really likes the racist stuff. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/9 "2016-03-05T05:04:13Z")
An [article that came up in another thread](http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism). Maybe what evangelicals really want is authoritarianism and racist stuff is the manifestation of that tendency when they feel threatened, just as strict religious observation appeals to that same tendency. > [@](#): > > authoritarians feel threatened by people they identify as “outsiders” and by the possibility of changes to the status quo makeup of their communities. > > This would help explain why authoritarians seem so prone to reject not just one specific kind of outsider or social change, such as Muslims or same-sex couples or Hispanic migrants, but rather to reject all of them. What these seemingly disparate groups have in common is the perceived threat they pose to the status quo order, which authoritarians experience as a threat to themselves. > > And America is at a point when the status quo social order is changing rapidly; when several social changes are converging. And they are converging especially on working-class white people. > > It is conventional wisdom to ascribe the rise of first the Tea Party right and now Trump to the notion that working-class white Americans are angry. > > Indeed they are, but this data helps explain that they are also under certain demographic and economic pressures that, according to this research, are highly likely to trigger authoritarianism — and thus suggests there is something a little more complex going on than simple “anger” that helps explain their gravitation toward extreme political responses. … > > … For liberals, it may be easy to conclude that opposition to things like same-sex marriage, immigration, and diversity is rooted in bigotry against those groups — that it’s the manifestation of specific homophobia, xenophobia, and Islamophobia. > > But the results of the Vox/Morning Consult poll, along with prior research on authoritarianism, suggests there might be something else going on. > > There is no particular reason, after all, why parenting goals should coincide with animus against specific groups. We weren’t asking questions about whether it was important for children to respect people of different races, but about whether they should respect authority and rules generally. So why do they coincide so heavily? > > What might look on the surface like bigotry was really much closer to Stenner’s theory of “activation” > What is most likely, Hetherington suggested, is that authoritarians are much more susceptible to messages that tell them to fear a specific “other” — whether or not they have a preexisting animus against that group. Those fears would therefore change over time as events made different groups seem more or less threatening. > > It all depends, he said, on whether a particular group of people has been made into an outgroup or not — whether they had been identified as a dangerous other. The point being that Evangelicals are less motivated by “Jesus stuff” than by being more likely to have authoritarian personality types and especially when under perceived threat. And Trump is a classic authoritarian leader. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/10 "2016-03-05T06:25:40Z")
One of the most interesting things about this election is Trump’s ability to thrive in the primaries while defying both theo-con and neo-con orthodoxy. I thought defending Planned Parenthood and attacking the Iraq war would hurt him but it hasn’t to any significant degree. Of course Trump only has a third of the primary vote. The remaining two thirds is probably still quite orthodox and it’s an open question whether he will be able to win enough of them over the next couple of months in the face of the fairly brutal attacks on him from conservatives. There is also the question whether Trump is a one-off and whether a future candidate will be able to replicate his strategy successfully. If Trump wins the nomination and loses the general, the party may well return to normal in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/11 "2016-03-05T06:46:31Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I mean, what, if anything, is particularly\* doctrinally Christian\* about Supply-Side Economics or union-busting or Neocon foreign intervention or nativist nationalism or guns? I’m not quite sure whether this is just a rhetorical question or not. But there is considerable Biblical support for an anti-union stance **as unions are now** –not as they were historically, when they actually did good work in fighting for safe work conditions and so forth. There are numerous verses that warn against greed and covetousness. One of the more interesting ones is Luke 3:14 (talking about John the Baptist)– “And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and **be content with your wages**.” (emphasis added) There is also a certain amount of Biblical support for capitalism. II Thessalonians 3:10– “For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.” ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/12 "2016-03-05T07:18:43Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > I’m not quite sure whether this is just a rhetorical question or not. > > But there is considerable Biblical support for an anti-union stance **as unions are now** –not as they were historically, when they actually did good work in fighting for safe work conditions and so forth. > > There are numerous verses that warn against greed and covetousness. One of the more interesting ones is Luke 3:14 (talking about John the Baptist)– > “And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and **be content with your wages**.” > (emphasis added) > > There is also a certain amount of Biblical support for capitalism. II Thessalonians 3:10– > “For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.” It also says And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Supporting tax breaks for the rich make it harder for them to enter inot the kingdom of God. That seems really cruel to me. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/13 "2016-03-05T07:27:53Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > …There is also a certain amount of Biblical support for capitalism. II Thessalonians 3:10– > “For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.” And you know, looked at the right way, the Sermon on the Mount is very much like one of those motivational lectures attended by regional sales managers out at the Holiday Inn on Highway 9! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/14 "2016-03-05T07:38:26Z")
And that part about how the rich guy wouldn’t help the poor guy Lazarus, and then the rich guy went to Hell and says “Hey, Lazarus, fetch me some water”. Now thats upper class sarcasm, because he knew that there was no way a wretch like Lazarus was gonna get past Security. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/15 "2016-03-05T07:52:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And you know, looked at the right way, the Sermon on the Mount is very much like one of those motivational lectures attended by regional sales managers out at the Holiday Inn on Highway 9! LOL! It’s definitely interesting to read that and realize they basically had the same televangelist huckster types back then (just without the “tele” part). And even though Jesus specifically warns against them, they still do awesome today, waving around the very same Bible with that warning in it. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/16 "2016-03-05T09:56:43Z")
So, I checked _Sojourner_, to see what Jim Wallis (an Evangelical who’s been on the _Daily Show_ & got along just great with Jon Stewart) was up to. [Guess the subject of the lead article!](https://sojo.net/articles/donald-trump-and-death-knell-white-supremacy) > [@](#): > > It’s time to put the moral crisis over the political one. Donald Trump’s potential nomination by the Republican Party is not just a crisis for that party and for election politics in general, it is a moral crisis for the country, for democracy itself, and for the state of faith in the nation. > > The media can act shocked about Trump failing to quickly and very clearly denounce David Duke and the KKK and their support for him, but they didn’t seriously ask the more important question: Why do the advocates of white supremacy like and advocate for Donald Trump? > > Here’s why: When a person fears death to his way of life on the horizon, he fights like hell to cling onto it. And that’s what is happening now… > > By mid-century, America will no longer be a white majority country, and many older white Americans — Trump’s voters — fear and resent that. While Barack Obama didn’t win the white vote, he got black, Hispanic, Asian-American, and young voters. And many other white Americans will be voting positively for a country that is becoming a majority of minorities and are with a new generation. Our numbers are growing. In the early days of the Republic, Baptists were advocates of separation of Church & State, since they had often suffered in Colonies with Established Churches. Some early Abolitionists came from these splinter sects. In the next century, the Southern Baptists broke away to defend slavery & disunion. In the last century, the [Religious Right](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right) was hatched as a political force. But not all Evangelicals really fit. Jim Wallis is not following Ted Cruz, either–and My Jr Senator is the [Anointed “Evangelical” Candidate](http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/kenneth-copeland-declares-ted-cruz-has-been-called-and-anointed-god-be-next-president). Wallis’s latest book is _[America’s Original Sin: Racism, White Privilege, and the Bridge to a New America](http://www.amazon.com/Americas-Original-Sin-Privilege-America/dp/1587433427/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1457171134&sr=8-1&keywords=jim+wallis+original+sin)_. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/17 "2016-03-05T11:54:50Z")
**SkackerInc** I place the “repressive sexual morality” angle in the category of re-litigating the 50s/60s/70s culture war being conveniently coincident with Evangelical doctrine. > [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > It also says And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. > > Supporting tax breaks for the rich make it harder for them to enter inot the kingdom of God. That seems really cruel to me. Right – **Flyer** , that just shows what we already know, that if you look for it, you can find scriptural backing for just about any policy position. But the greater point was: are those politico-economic policies, as a package – because remember, it was sold to the faithful as a package – considered per se a religious agenda? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/18 "2016-03-05T14:42:47Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Someone like Pew needs to try to figure out the true number, by not asking about labels but instead asking a whole bunch of questions about lifestyle, and in doing so they should try to avoid asking things that are easy for people to suss out the “good” answer (like how often they go to church). Q 13: Do you go to church? Q 14: Will you go to church this Sunday? Q 15: Would you go to church this Sunday if NASCAR was on? Q 16: Would you go to church this Sunday if it started at 7 am? Q 17: Would you go to church this Sunday if the Steelers game started at 9 am? Q 18: Would you slap your kids if they refused to go to church this Sunday? Q 19: Would you slap your kids if they wanted to go to church this Sunday, just so they could come out to your friends during “Time For Sharing”? Q20: Has all this thinking made your brain hurt? ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/19 "2016-03-05T16:03:12Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > It also says And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. > > Supporting tax breaks for the rich make it harder for them to enter inot the kingdom of God. That seems really cruel to me. False dichotomy, and excluded middle. There’s a world of difference between a rich person and the average wage-earner. > [@elucidator](#): > > And you know, looked at the right way, the Sermon on the Mount is very much like one of those motivational lectures attended by regional sales managers out at the Holiday Inn on Highway 9! I really wish I knew just what it is here on this board that leads people to believe that a snarky answer is an acceptable response to a serious post. Sometimes I wonder why I bother trying. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > Right – **Flyer** , that just shows what we already know, that if you look for it, you can find scriptural backing for just about any policy position. But the greater point was: are those politico-economic policies, as a package – because remember, it was sold to the faithful as a package – considered per se a religious agenda? These things were religious positions first, and then after the events of the 60’s, faithful church-goers responded to politicians who reached out to them. The anti-union stance is relatively new – remember, unions did good things at first. But then they got greedy, and Christians turned away from them. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970/20 "2016-03-05T16:41:28Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > False dichotomy, and excluded middle. > There’s a world of difference between a rich person and the average wage-earner. > > I really wish I knew just what it is here on this board that leads people to believe that a snarky answer is an acceptable response to a serious post. Sometimes I wonder why I bother trying. > > These things were religious positions first, and then after the events of the 60’s, faithful church-goers responded to politicians who reached out to them. > > The anti-union stance is relatively new – remember, unions did good things at first. But then they got greedy, and Christians turned away from them. ? Unions certainly reflect the rest of society, but. Do you think that the seat of greed is the Unions? Really? In a country with a Halliburton board Vice president, Bechtel, Blackwater, not to mention the corrupt governments all over the world, vacuuming workers of their treasure? Most Christians have never minded greed in the slightest. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-huge-and-mostly-overlooked-development-the-collapse-of-the-evangelical-voting-bloc/747970.md?page=2)