# A hyphen is not a dash **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 26, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861 "2017-02-26T18:50:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/1 "2017-02-26T18:50:49Z")
I’m not overly bothered when someone writes Its now the time for the good party and it’s donkeys to come to the aid of there country. Most of my posts would look at least that bad if I didn’t proofread them. But these spelling errors are understandable — the fingers and cerebellum are blundering in concert while the cerebrum is daydreaming of the lost innocence of one’s salad days. **But I _am_ annoyed by deliberate errors.** Would you type a semi-colon where a comma is proper because it looks prettier? No. Type a ‘z’ instead of ‘x’ because you forget where the ‘x’ key is? No. _ **Then don’t type a hyphen where a dash is called for!** _ OK? I became enamored with the dash via Edgar Allan Poe, who used it extensively and even made it the subject of a short easy with beginning and end quoted here: [QUOTE=Edgar Allan Poe, in Marginalia] That punctuation is important all agree; but how few comprehend the extent of its importance! The writer who neglects punctuation, or mis-punctuates, is liable to be misunderstood — this, according to the popular idea, is the sum of the evils arising from heedlessness or ignorance. It does not seem to be known that, even where the sense is perfectly clear, a sentence may be deprived of half its force — its spirit — its point — by improper punctuation. For the want of merely a comma, it often occurs that an axiom appears a paradox, or that a sarcasm is converted into a sermonoid. … Therefore, the dash _cannot_ be dispensed with. It has its phases — its variation of the force described; but the one principle — that of second thought or emendation — will be found at the bottom of all. [/QUOTE] I’ll admit that I probably overuse the dash. Avoiding it altogether is an acceptable policy — _certainly far better than substituting a hyphen where a dash is needed_. If you do use a dash, here are the ways to type it, from best to worst: [ul]li It has its phases — its variation of the force described.[/li][li](1, tied) It has its phases—its variation of the force described.[/li]li It has its phases – its variation of the force described.[/li]li It has its phases - its variation of the force described.[/li]li It has its phases-its variation of the force described.[/ul][/li]The dash can be created from the keyboard with Alt-151. Using a double hyphen for the dash, as in (3), is acceptable. IIRC, that’s the standard for text processors like Nroff, LaTeX and even MSWord. **But do not use a single hyphen.** Please. (I’ve left gaps in the ranking above — 3 to 10, and then to 35 — to emphasize the grating appearance of misused hyphens. I’d rather listen to a mistuned piano then have to look at such a thing.) If you insist on making errors when you type, use ‘their’ for ‘there’ or ‘wierd’ or ‘weird.’ Frankly, I’d almost rather you use no punctuation at all then misuse the hyphen! @ **Mods** — move this to the Pit, please, if that seems more appropriate (although I have avoided naming any _particular_ Doper who refuses to type a dash). BTW, I mentioned my disdain for the misused hyphen before, and a copy-editor replied that he had no problem with it. Can anyone point to to the use of such a monstrosity in professional writing? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/2 "2017-02-26T19:05:22Z")
And you failed to distinguish between the en dash (–) and the em dash (—). ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/3 "2017-02-26T19:07:19Z")
Now just hold on there one second. I agree with you about good punctuation, but if you’re as big a dash fan as you say, don’t neglect to point out that there are two different ones: em and en. The em dash used for “second thought or emendation” is Alt 0151. The en dash is Alt 0150. It’s used for indicating a range of dates or numbers: Edgar Allen Poe, 1809–1849. - hyphen – en — em Three different lengths for three different purposes. Edit: \*\*panache \*\*typed much more concisely and quickly, beating me to the punch. ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/4 "2017-02-26T19:26:55Z")
I’m in book publishing, so I’ve seen it all. But note that some countries (such as the UK) used spaced en dashes (i.e., an en dash with a space on each side) to represent an em dash. And use single quotes instead of double quotes, and put the punctuation on the outside of the quotes, instead of the inside. What I hate is when I get a Word file from an author or copy editor and they have spaces around the em dashes. Em dashes are supposed to be uptight—they should not have spaces around them (unless it’s a thin space so the letters next to them aren’t crashing). I do get a lot of Word files where double hypyens are used instead of em dashes, which is fine with me, as I have a macro that fixes that. Or they use hyphens with a space on both sides, which the macro also fixes. My biggest peeve, though is when they use two spaces after a period, or use spaces to indent a paragraph. But again, the macro fixes that. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/5 "2017-02-26T19:27:29Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Edit: \*\*panache \*\*typed much more concisely and quickly, beating me to the punch. He dashed ahead of you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/6 "2017-02-26T19:35:44Z")
id be satisfied if everyone just learned teh basics noone seemz too now them any more1 CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/7 "2017-02-26T20:03:54Z")
Talk to me when there’s a dash available on the keyboard without the need for me to manufacture it using the Alt key. Do you really expect me to spend brain cells (the few I have left) memorizing the Alt codes for both dashes, and the accented vowels that other people insist on and who knows what else? If you’re talking only about formal manuscripts, fine. Otherwise, sweetie, if you don’t like my hyphens don’t read my prose (this is nicer than the phrase I originally typed). And I think a double hyphen looks like crap. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/8 "2017-02-26T20:11:09Z")
Unless you are writing to yourself, use the typography style that your intended reader will respond to with the desired comprehension. Do not use the wrong punctuation marks, your reader will not understand. Do not use Cyrillic alphabet, do not set your font color to white-on-white, do not do other goofy stuff that will make your composition incomprehensible to your reader. If you don’t know the principles of style that everybody considers to be standard, learn it. It might require paying attention to criticism. A dash on a standard keyboard is two hyphens, preferably with a space before and after – like that. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/9 "2017-02-26T20:37:34Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Talk to me when there’s a dash available on the keyboard without the need for me to manufacture it using the Alt key. . . . I was taught, way back in high school typing class, to use a double hyphen – like this – to mean a 1/m dash. (Yes, and I still put two spaces after a period, too. Like this.) ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/10 "2017-02-26T20:47:41Z")
What about the mathematical minus? Brian ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/11 "2017-02-26T20:52:26Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > He dashed ahead of you. Thereby winning first place in the hundred-yard hyphen. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/12 "2017-02-26T20:58:51Z")
The funny thing is, the OP, having made such a BFD of it, never explained what the difference was between a hyphen and a dash, other than that they’re not the same length. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/13 "2017-02-26T21:01:57Z")
And since we’re talking about punctuation: [QUOTE=Dan Baird] Then one day I decided, that I would write a little letter She said the spellin’ was a masterpiece, the punctuation could be better I understood what she was saying, I got the gist of her sentiment She said "I don’t mean to be degrading, “but here’s the way that it should’ve went:” I love you period Do you love me question mark Please, please exclamation point I want to hold you in parentheses [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/14 "2017-02-26T21:12:16Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > The funny thing is, the OP, having made such a BFD of it, never explained what the difference was between a hyphen and a dash, other than that they’re not the same length. Maybe I should have put this in the Pit! 😛 [Let me Google that for you.](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+difference+was+between+a+hyphen+and+a+dash) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/15 "2017-02-26T21:17:29Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > What about the mathematical minus? And there are several of those. If you ever get into Tex symbol stuff it gets deep pretty fast. To the OP. Look. We have to compromise. A keyboard doesn’t have open and close quotes for example. We just have ". Not the best thing but it will do. Same thing with using “-” as hyphen, em-dash, en-dash and minus. Sure, you can find alt-codes, html symbols, UTF whatnot. But that’s a pain. For a lot, and I mean _a lot_, of everyday stuff the symbols on the keyboard are _good enough_. Not remotely anything to lose sleep over. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/16 "2017-02-26T21:25:04Z")
It seems that dashes – neither en nor em – are available on an iPad; I’ve switched over to the desktop machine to type this. Unlike **TheCuse** I’m not in book publishing, but I design ads, brochures, newsletters, and other items that use narrow columns of type. When setting type in two-inch columns, it is a pain to confront an em dash. If someone writes, “Em dashes are supposed to be uptight—inserting spaces around them sucks”, I’m looking at a 17 character unit (“uptight—inserting”). The odds are the unit won’t fit on one line, and one of the words will get hyphenated. _uptight—in- serting_ Which just looks strange, and strips the em dash of all authority. I can insert a manual line break after the em dash, but if the layout gets edited, the manual break can cause new problems when the text reflows. The en dash – with spaces – is designer friendly. The words are much less likely to get hyphenated, and the en dash in equally at home at the start or the end of a line. _“uptight – inserting” or “uptight – inserting”_ If you’re writing for narrow columns, try to use spaced en dashes rather than unspaced ems. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/17 "2017-02-26T21:48:17Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Maybe I should have put this in the Pit! 😛 [Let me Google that for you.](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+difference+was+between+a+hyphen+and+a+dash) Oh sure, I could have Googled it myself if I cared. But you see, you’re the one who cares about this, and I’m the one who doesn’t. And yet you didn’t care enough to say it in the thread. Hell, you didn’t even care about it enough to choose an actual link! Whatever, dude. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/18 "2017-02-26T23:41:41Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > What about the mathematical minus? I use and en dash (–) as a minus. ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/19 "2017-02-27T00:06:33Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > It seems that dashes – neither en nor em – are available on an iPad; I’ve switched over to the desktop machine to type this. I’m not familiar with using iPads (or PCs as most users have). But on a Mac–an em dash it simply hitting Shift + Option + Hyphen. I will honestly admit my ignorance when PC follks talk about the codes. Is it really that complicated to type an em dash? I mean no offense and am honestly asking. I have not used a PC or worked on one in 25+ years. I’ve been on a Mac. I just figured an em dash or en dash or a bacsic accent was universal. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/20 "2017-02-27T00:32:38Z")
Yes, on a Mac the en dash is alt-hyphen, and the em dash is shift-alt-hyphen. No codes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861.md?page=2)