# A hyphen is not a dash **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 26, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861 "2017-02-26T18:50:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/61 "2017-02-27T21:11:11Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > This. > > That said, I believe there is room for such an improvement to the standard computer keyboard (QWERTY keyboard, that is). On the number pad, for instance, to the “northeast” of the “9,” we find the “minus” sign, which is reiterated on the main keyboard immediately to the right of the “0.” The Shifted version of this key is the “underscore” key (as an aside, is the “minus” sign a hyphen or an en-dash?). > > Let the “minus” sign key be the hyphen, and the key to the right of the “0” key be used for en-dashes and em-dashes. > … For the 75% of PC users who are on laptops with no numeric pad this will work how? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/62 "2017-02-27T21:20:19Z")
[quote=“LSLGuy, post:48, topic:780861”] If you don’t believe me, click > [@](#): > > on this post and look at what you see :). Well, yes, I know that, since I typed it with two spaces originally and could see the difference. I got the wrong piece of software in my explanation, though. Not server-side, but client (browser) side. I thought it was the board software that saved it as multiple spaces, but sent it out as one for display, but it looks like, if I’m understanding you correctly, it’s the browsers that do that. (Which seems counter-intuitive to me, because it does show up as multiple spaces when you’re typing and editing it and quoting it.) Thanks for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/63 "2017-02-27T21:28:59Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > For the 75% of PC users who are on laptops with no numeric pad this will work how? I specifically mentioned that my solution works for _standard_ computer keyboards, by which I mean “the kind that are used with desktop computers.” Such keyboards are very inexpensive, come with USB connectors that can be plugged into laptops, and don’t cause my hands to cramp up the way laptop keyboards do. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/64 "2017-02-28T00:49:03Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Using “view source” to see the raw HTML of the page is informative. \*If \*one can read HTML. If not, here’s the high points: > > The > > ```auto > > tag does several things. It sets a monospace = non-proportional font, special margins, etc. But the critical difference here is that it also encloses the verbatim body text inside a set of HTML [noparse]<pre> </pre>[/noparse] tags. Which has the effect of telling the browser to display everything inside the tag exactly as transmitted. Including showing every adjacent space and without wordwrapping. See https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_pre.asp for more on the [noparse]<pre>[/noparse] tag. > > ``` Cool! Thanks for explaining it for me. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/65 "2017-02-28T00:56:03Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I specifically mentioned that my solution works for _standard_ computer keyboards, by which I mean “the kind that are used with desktop computers.” Such keyboards are very inexpensive, come with USB connectors that can be plugged into laptops, and don’t cause my hands to cramp up the way laptop keyboards do. But for those of us with small enough hands 😉 to manage a laptop keyboard with relative ease - why would we drag along a whole 'nother keyboard that’s more awkward to carry around than the laptop is, just for those rare situations where we might want two kinds of dashes? (Yeah, I consider a hyphen to be a kind of dash, uncircumcised Philistine that I am. :)) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/66 "2017-02-28T01:03:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > A tangential question: how were these issues managed before the invention of the printing press? By beating the scribes until they had mastered the many subtleties of the holy hyphen. ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/67 "2017-02-28T01:45:21Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > So, ellipses… three dots or four at the end of a sentence? > (Three, of course, in all instances. This isn’t 1893 any more.) Not always three. And I’m in book publishing as well. It depends upon the sentence structure and whether the thoughts/words continue smoothly. I’d say 90 percent of ellipses are three dots. I can see reasons for using four. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/68 "2017-02-28T02:11:10Z")
Ya’ know, you _can_ install Mac keyboard layouts on Windows that let you get all of the nice diacriticals and other goodies that we get on a Mac intuitively, without all of the alt+numeric keypad stuff. On Linux, too. I guess that knowledge spoils me, and I never have to remember that esoteric voodoo. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/69 "2017-02-28T02:48:53Z")
> [@TheCuse](#): > > Not always three. And I’m in book publishing as well. It depends upon the sentence structure and whether the thoughts/words continue smoothly. > > I’d say 90 percent of ellipses are three dots. I can see reasons for using four. I’ve always done the three dots (which is a different character than just three periods), followed by a period, or, in other words, ellipsis + period. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/70 "2017-02-28T05:50:40Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Chicken\_Fingers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Chicken\_Fingers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicken_Fingers)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/71 "2017-02-28T05:56:48Z")
This thread is giving me terrible flashbacks of having to learn how to use both an en dash and a hyphen to string together compound word combos. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/72 "2017-02-28T13:49:15Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > If you reread #1 you’ll see I don’t rank space-hyphen-space at the bottom of the list of dash substitutes, though space-hyphen-hyphen-space is better. As you say, it should cause no confusion. > > What is truly detestable is the single hyphen _ **without the spaces** _. One starts off thinking a hyphen is intended. Yes, one often then recovers within a second, but meanwhile one gets shivers like one gets from the screeching sound of squeaky chalk on a blackboard. _ **I’m asking Dopers to take pity!** _ > > The hyphen is used to _ **join** _ two half-words, as in this sentence. The dash is used to _ **separate** _ two thoughts — thus its purpose is _ **opposite** _ to the hyphen. I hope this comparison helps Dopers see why the improper use of hyphen is so annoying. I noted and appreciated that my usual board usage - like this - did not rank at the bottom of your listed. I just don’t like not being the best I can be, and was offering an excuse as to why this is in this case :). I completely agree with the rest of your post, but I have to say I haven’t noticed it that often. Then again, I’ve pretty much given up the fight on “anytime” being 2 words, so I’m not a proper prescriptivist anyway. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/73 "2017-02-28T14:04:42Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’ve always done the three dots (which is a different character than just three periods), followed by a period, or, in other words, ellipsis + period. Sorry, that was supposed to be a reply to how do you do it at the end of a sentence. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/74 "2017-02-28T15:20:12Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > Then again, I’ve pretty much given up the fight on “anytime” being 2 words, so I’m not a proper prescriptivist anyway. It’s not always two words. If it’s an adjective, like an “anytime cold medicine”, it’s one word. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/75 "2017-02-28T16:03:40Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’ve always done the three dots (which is a different character than just three periods), followed by a period, or, in other words, ellipsis + period. So do you put a period after question marks and exclamation points as well? An ellipsis is a sentence terminator in its own right. No need for the period. I think that’s the crux of the whole three/four dot thing. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/76 "2017-02-28T16:26:26Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Sorry, that was supposed to be a reply to how do you do it at the end of a sentence. At the end of my sentence, when they let me out, I did it with great enthusiasm and pent-up passion. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/77 "2017-02-28T16:39:21Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Ya’ know, you _can_ install Mac keyboard layouts on Windows that let you get all of the nice diacriticals and other goodies that we get on a Mac intuitively, without all of the alt+numeric keypad stuff. On Linux, too. > > I guess that knowledge spoils me, and I never have to remember that esoteric voodoo. What you might consider “intuitive” boggles the minds of others. I looked at a simple [page](http://symbolcodes.tlt.psu.edu/accents/codemac.html) of special symbols and … egad. And that doesn’t remotely cover a whole lot of other standard English typographic symbols. Presumably the “option” key is mapped to a key like “alt” on a PC which then messes up various uses of that key that a PC user is used to. This is hardly a simple or complication-free idea. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/78 "2017-02-28T16:42:49Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > So do you put a period after question marks and exclamation points as well? > > An ellipsis is a sentence terminator in its own right. No need for the period. I think that’s the crux of the whole three/four dot thing. I don’t parse it as a sentence terminator, but that’s because that’s how I grew up with it and how it’s been used in the literature I read. It’s all rather arbitrary in the end, but I’m most used to the version with an ellipsis followed by a period, so that’s what I do. For me, it’s in the same category as quotation marks or brackets that need their own terminal punctuation. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/79 "2017-02-28T17:05:34Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > So do you put a period after question marks and exclamation points as well? > > An ellipsis is a sentence terminator in its own right. No need for the period. I think that’s the crux of the whole three/four dot thing. As with the dashes, there is disagreement between various leading style guides over whether or not there should be spaces between the dots in an ellipsis, and over whether or not there should be a period at the end of an ellipsis when the writer wishes to indicate a full stop to the sentence rather than a trailing off. I am of the opinion that an ellipsis indicates an intentional omission. I do not consider an ellipsis to be a sentence terminator. If the last words of a sentence were omitted, then I would use four dots to indicate the omission followed by a full stop. If entire paragraphs were omitted, I would use four dots between paragraph breaks to indicate the omission followed by a full stop. If the sentence were to simply dribble off into silence, then I would only use three dots to indicate that the omission was not one of actual words that had been said, but rather was one of thoughts that were unspoken, leaving the sentence hanging without a stop to it. Note that these opinions on typography are simply my preferences, of no more authority than the opinions of Tristram, for there is no single authority on the matter. Just use whatever style guide the boss requires, and try not to get stuck using ALL CAPS as befell poor Archy. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/80 "2017-02-28T18:20:12Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > It’s not always two words. If it’s an adjective, like an “anytime cold medicine”, it’s one word. I’m OK with that usage, but many others are not and would prefer “any-time cold medicine” (thus preserving “any” and “time” as separate words, joined by a hyphen in this instance to make an adjective). However, I’m also seeing it used anytime (sic) that sequence of letters appears, and this I’m not a fan of. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861.md?page=5)