# A hyphen is not a dash **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 26, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861 "2017-02-26T18:50:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/81 "2017-02-28T23:15:03Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > What you might consider “intuitive” boggles the minds of others. I looked at a simple [page](http://symbolcodes.tlt.psu.edu/accents/codemac.html) of special symbols and … egad. And that doesn’t remotely cover a whole lot of other standard English typographic symbols. Very intuitive, but the page you link to doesn’t show very good examples. The acute accent is usually over the é, so that’s the key to use. The tilde usually goes over an ñ, so there you go. ¡Spanish is easy! Dollars and ¢ are easy. Saying ±10% is easy. Bullets • are easy. It all makes a bit of sense. > [@](#): > > Presumably the “option” key is mapped to a key like “alt” on a PC which then messes up various uses of that key that a PC user is used to. Actually, good point. On Windows/Unix it’s usually AltGr, but most American users aren’t familiar with that concept. AltGr is usually the _rightmost_ Alt key on non-Mac keyboards. You can setup AltGr on Windows without emulating a Mac keyboard, too. Just select US-International, then AltGr will give you some extra symbols. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/82 "2017-03-01T10:41:19Z")
archy typed with no caps at all by necessity his body was only big enough to operate one key at a time so everything involving a shift key was out of reach except the one time he hit the shift lock key and GOT ALL CAPS ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/83 "2017-03-01T12:42:15Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > What about the mathematical minus? > > Brian We’re taking it away. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/84 "2017-03-01T13:53:19Z")
i m reminded that off-and-on over the decades my sister and i often closed our letters to each other with the valediction: _ **toujours gai — mehitabel** _ ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/85 "2017-03-01T15:42:16Z")
Eh, I’m not really going to worry about hyphen vs. daſh. I’m hoping to ſucceſsfully bring back the long s. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/86 "2017-03-01T15:54:00Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Eh, I’m not really going to worry about hyphen vs. daſh. I’m hoping to ſucceſsfully bring back the long s. Well, I hope you learn to use it correctly. I believe the medial ſ _follows_ a terminal s in the middle of a word, so your “ſucceſsfully” is unsuccessful. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/87 "2017-03-01T15:55:51Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > I’m OK with that usage, but many others are not and would prefer “any-time cold medicine” (thus preserving “any” and “time” as separate words, joined by a hyphen in this instance to make an adjective). However, I’m also seeing it used anytime (sic) that sequence of letters appears, and this I’m not a fan of. The normal progression is two words, hyphenated words, single word… but as in this example there are many cases where two words (spaced or hyphenated) and one word don’t mean quite the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/88 "2017-03-01T15:58:55Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Well, I hope you learn to use it correctly. I believe the medial ſ _follows_ a terminal s in the middle of a word, so your “ſucceſsfully” is unsuccessful. not according to [this map.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/LowsUSAmap_1.jpeg) look at how “Mississippi” is written. “Miſsiſsippi.” ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/89 "2017-03-01T16:04:17Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Well, I hope you learn to use it correctly. I believe the medial ſ _follows_ a terminal s in the middle of a word, so your “ſucceſsfully” is unsuccessful. Other way around. Long s is initial and medial. Normal s is final position. English has nothing like that dimorphism of a letter any more. Being able to read and write in Arabic, Hebrew, and Greek gives plenty of practice with final versus medial forms. I would have been so disappointed if no one had responded with “toujours gai”—thanks! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/90 "2017-03-01T16:41:11Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Well, I hope you learn to use it correctly. I believe the medial ſ _follows_ a terminal s in the middle of a word, so your “ſucceſsfully” is unsuccessful. Nope, to reiterate **Johanna** , it’s correct. Normally, a double-s in the middle of a word would be ſſ, as in “claſſic” for “classic,” but the root here is “success,” which is “ſucceſs”+ “ful,” hence “ſucceſsful.” There’s a reason it’s called the “terminal s.” For an example, see [line 120](https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_dcm_cKhTlsgC) in Book I here (Page 6–not the literal sixth page, because there’s a bunch of prefaces in the book.) That’s an example of “ſucceſsful.” If you look at line 25, you’ll see an example of a medial double-s in the word “aſſert.” ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/91 "2017-03-01T16:51:58Z")
How much of this debate over usage of the medial ſ is due to English grammar having been less than fully standardized when it was still in use? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/92 "2017-03-01T17:00:40Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > not according to [this map.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/LowsUSAmap_1.jpeg) look at how “Mississippi” is written. “Miſsiſsippi.” It should be noted also that sometimes the conventions were not applied with full rigour. I would have thought that Mississippi should be rendered Miſſiſſippi using the conventions of the time, and that does seem that’s how it [typically was](https://archive.org/details/someconsideratio00smit). (That’s just one example from the time period, but all five examples I picked from the time period reflected the same spelling.) ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861/93 "2017-03-01T17:19:09Z")
ſ laid out sideways would almost be dash of some sort. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-hyphen-is-not-a-dash/780861.md?page=4)