# A kinder, gentler authoritarianism (Giuliani, Romney, and Pres. imprisonment power) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 1, 2007, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-kinder-gentler-authoritarianism-giuliani-romney-and-pres-imprisonment-power/398320 "2007-04-01T17:53:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-kinder-gentler-authoritarianism-giuliani-romney-and-pres-imprisonment-power/398320/21 "2007-04-02T15:47:39Z")
Well, I’m sure they could have pressed the case in _Quirin_, but since they were caught red-handed it wouldn’t have mattered much. The case makes reference to admitted facts, so I’m sure they weren’t worrying about the government proving the allegation, which they could easily do. They were trying to win the case on other grounds. You know the old expression, if your case is weak on the facts, argue the law. If weak on the law, argue the facts. In this case, they were clearly weak on the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-kinder-gentler-authoritarianism-giuliani-romney-and-pres-imprisonment-power/398320/22 "2007-04-02T15:49:33Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper] I’m afraid your _tu quoque_ argument isn’t of much help. [/QUOTE] It isn’t a _tu quoque_. It is case law that still has force. And I think you ought to take that into account in your arguments. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-kinder-gentler-authoritarianism-giuliani-romney-and-pres-imprisonment-power/398320/23 "2007-04-02T16:14:48Z")
Guys, any New Yorker knows Rudy wants that power. It’s what he does. He’d be a kickass AG, but a very very bad President. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-kinder-gentler-authoritarianism-giuliani-romney-and-pres-imprisonment-power/398320/24 "2007-04-02T16:49:03Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper] You cite _Ex parte Quirin_. However, as I read that case, it certainly does not support the postion taken by either Romney or Guiliani. In _Quirin_, both the lower federal court and the Supreme Court reviewed executive detention and trial by military commission, via an application the detainees brought for _habeas corpus_. The federal court and the Supreme Court both dismissed the applications on their merits, but they expressly affirmed that the courts had jurisdiction to review the detention by the executive. [/QUOTE] A good point. Also worth noting that the right for people held as illegal combatants to challenge their detention (or one figures one of these days, execution) before a neuteral party (i.e., a court) has been upheld in Hamdi and, in Hamdan, even in the case of non-US citizens. Hamdi was released. Anyone know what the status of Hamdan is? Last I heard congress had passed a law creating a military tribunal to try and meet the Supreme’s requirement of review which, I assume, was challenged by Hamdan’s lawyers? Is that making its way to the Supreme Court now? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-kinder-gentler-authoritarianism-giuliani-romney-and-pres-imprisonment-power/398320/25 "2007-04-02T17:02:06Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] Guys, any New Yorker knows Rudy wants that power. It’s what he does. He’d be a kickass AG, but a very very bad President. [/QUOTE] Yeah… when I read **BrainGlutton** ’s comment I didn’t know whether to laugh or scream. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-kinder-gentler-authoritarianism-giuliani-romney-and-pres-imprisonment-power/398320/26 "2007-04-02T19:06:37Z")
Scream. He’s right. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-kinder-gentler-authoritarianism-giuliani-romney-and-pres-imprisonment-power/398320/27 "2007-04-03T05:59:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Ah, but they never claimed they were for limited authority, did they? Huh? Huh? This is true. We eliminate the court system and let one person decide who goes to prison. The result? We’ve made the government smaller and more efficient. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-kinder-gentler-authoritarianism-giuliani-romney-and-pres-imprisonment-power/398320.md?page=1)