# A Lame But Heartfelt Rant Re: The NYC Subway System **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 30, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380 "2006-10-30T00:51:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/1 "2006-10-30T00:51:38Z")
Okay. I used to live in the city, but I was all about Queens and Manhattan. Sometimes Brooklyn, but rarely. Tomorrow I wanna dump my car on the UWS and take the Express 2 or 3 into Brooklyn to a hospital. Being the Internet wag I am, I went to find a map of our dearly beloved [NYC Subway System](http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/maps/submap.htm). We pay like $ 2.00 per ride and THIS IS THE BEST THEY CAN DO??? A scanned image using a scanner built from a kit in 1989 ? God almighty. I’m viewing it on a gargantuan monitor and I have 20/15 vision, so I know it ain’t me or my hardware. These guys need to update their website. They need to show each line with a list of all stops- because frankly, looking at some of the major nexus stops is an exercise in futility. The resolution is so piss-poor, and ( as has always been the case ) the listing of all trains stopping at a nexus stop is a tiny line of letters and numbers under the stop’s name. Fortunately, I found another site and figured out what stop to use. But please. What would it cost them to render the NYC Subway Map very very clearly ??? There. A lame but heartfelt rant. Were I to make it a broader stroke, I’d say that I defy any Doper to show me a municipal transit system whose website truly is excellent, up-to-date and clear and easy to negotiate. G’wan. Show me !!! Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/2 "2006-10-30T01:02:37Z")
I’m not from NYC, I can count the times I’ve ridden on a subway on one hand, and I have 12/20 vision (or however that’s written)-- that map is clear to me. I can read everything just fine. I’m missing what’s wrong with it? ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/3 "2006-10-30T01:09:20Z")
It looks clear to me as well. Also, if you click on any line, you get a list of all the stops, cross streets, transfers, and connections. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/4 "2006-10-30T01:16:37Z")
Dowload the PDF version. It’s zoomable and very nice. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/5 "2006-10-30T01:28:10Z")
Where is this zoomable PDF version of which you speak? ---
**Author:** ![Gleena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@Gleena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gleena)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/6 "2006-10-30T01:32:39Z")
Er…since you asked: CityRail, in Sydney, is pretty clear: [http://www.cityrail.info/timetable/index.jsp](http://www.cityrail.info/timetable/index.jsp) And you can map your whole trip here, easily: > **[Home | transportnsw.info](https://transportnsw.info)** > > Transport and travel information to help you plan your public transport trip around NSW by metro, train, bus, ferry, light rail and coach. Trip Planner, travel alerts, tickets, Opal fares, concessions and timetables. Just don’t get silly and expect to get there on _time_, or anything. Cause its always late. :mad: Cheers, G ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/7 "2006-10-30T02:25:20Z")
[QUOTE=AHunter3] Where is this zoomable PDF version of which you speak? [/QUOTE] At the top of the map, where it says: Click on any station below to link to information about the lines serving it. This map is also available in [PDF](http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/maps/subwaymap.pdf) format. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/8 "2006-10-30T03:59:10Z")
[QUOTE=Gleena] Er…since you asked: CityRail, in Sydney, is pretty clear: [http://www.cityrail.info/timetable/index.jsp](http://www.cityrail.info/timetable/index.jsp) [/QUOTE] That’s more timetables though. For an actual map-type map, Cityrail also does pretty well, with a choice of formats: [http://www.cityrail.info/networkmaps/selection.jsp](http://www.cityrail.info/networkmaps/selection.jsp) ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/9 "2006-10-30T04:40:09Z")
[QUOTE=Cartooniverse] They need to show each line with a list of all stops- because frankly, looking at some of the major nexus stops is an exercise in futility. [/QUOTE] [Like they do here](http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/service/fourline.htm)? 😕😕 If it’s not that, then what exactly do you mean? Even as a tourist, I’ve never had a problem navigating with that map. I do sometimes wish there were somewhere to order a map similar to the ones at certain stations – an accurate, to-scale street map with the train stations and track routes overlaid. Sometimes it’s hard to judge how far apart two stops actually are without being familiar with the neighborhood, and it’d be nice. ---
**Author:** ![Gleena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@Gleena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gleena)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/10 "2006-10-30T06:22:39Z")
[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog] That’s more timetables though. For an actual map-type map, Cityrail also does pretty well, with a choice of formats: [http://www.cityrail.info/networkmaps/selection.jsp](http://www.cityrail.info/networkmaps/selection.jsp) [/QUOTE] True, true, but you’re still gonna be late. You can sure tell where you’re going, which makes it frustrating when you can’t actually get there. I noticed CityRail stopped apologising for any inconvenience caused, though. 😉 And to be fair, they are getting just a little closer to being on time. Just a little. But yeah, the map is sweet! (And it was great for me when I first moved here, trying to figure out where I needed to go.) Cheers, G ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/11 "2006-10-30T12:27:35Z")
[QUOTE=Gleena] I noticed CityRail stopped apologising for any inconvenience caused, though. 😉 And to be fair, they are getting just a little closer to being on time. Just a little. [/QUOTE] In Cityrail’s defence, I can tell you with some certainty that the reason they stopped apologising was because people complained about the insicerity of it, so they dropped it. For mine, I don’t like being apologised to (or maybe _at_) by a machine, or even by a Station Assistant who would most likely rather be anywhere else himself. What I do like - and it’s an area in which they’re improving - is being given actual _information_ instead, so instead of the old “The… six… thirty… seven… train.. to… Bankstown… is… delayed.. by… approximately… twelve… minutes” and nothing else, you often get a human being saying, “The six thirty-seven Bankstown train is running about twelve minutes late because of a broken-down freight train at Flemington. Your train is currently at Lidcombe, and we will keep you informed of its progress”. Some of the staff are really good like that. Not that it gets you to your destination any quicker, but it eases the frustration somehow. They are improving, but with a way to go. 2004 was the low point. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/12 "2006-10-30T14:26:36Z")
[QUOTE=Cartooniverse] We pay like $ 2.00 per ride and THIS IS THE BEST THEY CAN DO??? A scanned image using a scanner built from a kit in 1989 ? God almighty. I’m viewing it on a gargantuan monitor and I have 20/15 vision, so I know it ain’t me or my hardware. [/QUOTE] Umm… Looks like a decent map to me. Maybe is **IS** you or your hardware! ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/13 "2006-10-30T14:37:48Z")
/me is also confused. As far as I can tell, that’s an easily viewable and discernable raster map with a link to a PDF, and is also clickable for individual station information and whole-line strip maps containing service advisories for that line. It can’t be easy to provide web information for a metro network the size and complexity of the NYC subway. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/14 "2006-10-30T14:49:44Z")
**Cartooniverse** : Instead of the Transit map, try this Google Hack: [onnyturf.com](http://www.onnyturf.com/subway/) I like having the actual paper Subway map myself. The PDF version is not great. The Google Hack is great. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Elza\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/15 "2006-10-30T15:41:34Z")
What hospital are you trying to get to? Because if it’s Methodist, you’re better off taking the F instead of the 2/3. Do what real NYers do, pick a train and THEN figure out how to get where you want to be :D. (Or was that just me and my roommate? :p) . E. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/16 "2006-10-30T16:43:42Z")
I’ve always thought the NYC subway map is by several orders of magnitude the easiest to read of any significantly complicated rail system. I appreciate the link to the PDF version (I missed that) because the low-res version, while adequate for where the subway lines go, leaves a lot to be desired re: showing what _other than the subway lines_ exists where. A greater profusion of landmarks, more side streets marked, etc, is useful when you’re trying to decide which of two lines comes closest to your destination. Compared to [Paris](http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/map_ParisMetroBig.jpg) ([alt version](http://www.obspm.fr/admin/visites/metro.gif)), we’re doing pretty good in NYC. The area between 14th St and 42nd St in Manhattan is the “key” — each line as it exists in the “key” has a color, and each color only one line. (The J/M/Z brown line and the pale green G line, which don’t actually go through the “key” at all, are implemented as closest approximations). Those colored lines may diverge elsewhere, but by knowing which route a train line is on when it gets to the “key” you have an intuitive sense of its likely route when you’re looking at trains in the Bronx or Brooklyn or upper Manhattan or wherever, without having to trace it end to end _first_. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/17 "2006-10-30T18:40:06Z")
[QUOTE=Bambi Hassenpfeffer] Even as a tourist, I’ve never had a problem navigating with that map. I do sometimes wish there were somewhere to order a map similar to the ones at certain stations – an accurate, to-scale street map with the train stations and track routes overlaid. Sometimes it’s hard to judge how far apart two stops actually are without being familiar with the neighborhood, and it’d be nice. [/QUOTE] I find the [bus maps](http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/maps/manbus.pdf) to be the most comprehensive. You get street names, major landmarks, Subway stations, general neighborhoods (Upper East Side, Greenwich Village, etc.), etc. ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/18 "2006-10-30T21:24:08Z")
It’s a pretty good map, but if it’s giving you problems, may I suggest using [Hopstop.](http://www.hopstop.com/?city=newyork) It works like MapQuest, except it just tells you what subway to take and how to walk the rest of the way. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/19 "2006-10-31T01:12:27Z")
[QUOTE=Elza B] What hospital are you trying to get to? Because if it’s Methodist, you’re better off taking the F instead of the 2/3. Do what real NYers do, pick a train and THEN figure out how to get where you want to be :D. (Or was that just me and my roommate? :p) . E. [/QUOTE] Damned right. I have lived here since 1981, so I am guessing I can count as a real NY’er in this context. I got to Long Island College Hospital in Brooklyn Heights just fine. My complaint was not about how well the NYC subway map was laid out, but the actual resolution and clarity. Which DOES suck on my machine. Very odd. Yes, it is brilliant in fact that if you click on a station you find out the trains stopping through it. I didn’t examine the PDF, because I figured out which stop I needed to use by… … ( this is VERY Internet-not-friendly )… calling the hospital and asking. That’s cause on the 2 or 3, I couldn’t discern if Clark St. or Borough Hall was smarter. Borough Hall was smarter. ---
**Author:** ![Gleena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@Gleena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gleena)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380/20 "2006-10-31T01:25:14Z")
[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog] They are improving, but with a way to go. 2004 was the low point. [/QUOTE] Oh, agreed! Town Hall at rush hour where I was working then sucked. Cheers, G [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lame-but-heartfelt-rant-re-the-nyc-subway-system/378380.md?page=2)