# A Lawyer Says Abstinence Should Not Be Taught in School? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 6, 2000, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337 "2000-12-06T18:22:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![FloChi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58956e/32.png) [@FloChi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloChi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/241 "2000-12-19T16:36:21Z")
Just to chime in and say that I think your idea could work WB. It would also cause the parents to learn a lot of things that they probably didn’t know either. How many different types of contraception there are for example, and stop a lot of urban legends going around. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/242 "2000-12-19T17:53:54Z")
Only one problem I can see, **Bill** , but it could be a showstopper. You said: > [@](#): > > In otherwords having the parents teach sex ed at home with infomation and materials the schools provide. But who decides what those materials are? If the school system is determining the curriculum, the only thing your plan does is eliminate a possible spin from the teacher–which really isn’t as common as you seem to think. Not all teachers are evil liberal atheists, really. So you get the info and teaching materials from the school. What if you decide you disagree with it? If you don’t teach your kids the material, they don’t get a “passing” grade and the school ends up teaching it to them anyway. **Bill** , the way I see it, you have two concerns about teaching sex-ed in public school. Firstly, you are concerned about the way the material is presented, which you are afraid will be in a very liberal and sinful manner (and I continue to maintain that’s unfounded). Secondly, you have problems with the _material being taught_. If I’ve summarised adequately, then your plan only addresses the first, and by far the lesser, of your concenrs. As an aside, how many schools give grades on sex-ed? I know my 5th grade class had a couple days of sexual anatomy and puberty and such, but it wasn’t graded, and my private middle school and high school left most everything besides the nuts and bolts to the parents. I guess I was kinda under the impression that sex-ed classes weren’t graded for the most part? ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/243 "2000-12-19T18:02:54Z")
[hijack] **Esprix** , I think, oddly, that **Bill** wasn’t condemning rimming as such. I have to admit, that if someone had introduced the concept to me as a young, and _very_ sheltered, teen (14-16), I too would have said, “They do **what**? Eeeewwwww…” Of course, as an enlightened adult, I am occasionally puzzled but rarely “grossed out” by what other consenting adults choose to do with their bodies… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/244 "2000-12-19T18:03:20Z")
I like the idea of parental involvement in sex education, but I see some problems with your idea, **Wildest Bill**. What about the kids who fail twice and have to take the course? Can you imagine the abuse from the other kids they will get? Also, how would you react if the school told _you_ that _your_ kids didn’t pass the test(s)? I don’t any parent would take this very well. You are evaluating the parents as well as the kids. I would hate to be the school administrator manning the phones the day after the evaluations went out. Some parents become parents because they don’t know enough about sex and birth control. ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/245 "2000-12-19T18:50:39Z")
Dr. Matrix all the more reason for the parents(the ones that probably shouldn’t be parents) teaching the kids sex education especially birth control. Also to prevent kids from being laughed at have them taught in the morning or after school. And lets face it sex education isn’t rocket science. Andros, I will get to your post. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/246 "2000-12-19T19:00:39Z")
I would be afraid that parents who are unwilling or unable to teach their children the basics about sex now, would still be unwilling or unable when provided with a packet of teaching materials. And about the issue of “how” the teachers teaches it- if I’m not mistaken, parents are welcome to review the materials and even sit in on the class, although this might cause their kids more psychological damage than the info itself! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/247 "2000-12-19T19:08:54Z")
Maybe this will make me a prude, but when I heard what rimming was (a couple of MONTHS ago!:eek:) I was kind of like, they do WHAT!!! Hehehehee… ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/248 "2000-12-19T19:10:28Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > Dr. Matrix all the more reason for the parents(the ones that probably shouldn’t be parents) teaching the kids sex education especially birth control. Also to prevent kids from being laughed at have them taught in the morning or after school. And lets face it sex education isn’t rocket science._\* emphasis mine. **Bill** , aren’t you the guy who’s been swearing by the ‘no deposit no return’ method of b/c, **despite** evidence that it’s ineffective??? and by the way, trust me, kids will be laughed at regardless of when the lessons are taught. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/249 "2000-12-19T19:14:13Z")
Oh lousy smilie! I meant: :eek: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/250 "2000-12-19T20:45:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by \*\*\*Wildest Bill \*\* > Dr. Matrix all the more reason for the parents(the ones that probably shouldn’t be parents) teaching the kids sex education especially birth control. Huh? This sounds like the blind leading the blind to me. > [@](#): > > Also to prevent kids from being laughed at have them taught in the morning or after school. I don’t think this would help any. ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/251 "2000-12-19T21:26:57Z")
Hey wring, I figured you would call me on that one. Listen I know the way I am praticing birth control is not the safest way. What I didn’t know was the odds 1 out of 5 times it works I believe somebody said on this thread. But I am financially able to handle another baby and so it was a “risk” I was ready to take. Besides maybe I don’t leak. 😃 So it is an effective birth control for me. Dr Matrix, You gotta remember the parent is going to teach material provided by the school(with a huge Q&A section for both the parents and the child. Ok if you don’t think it would work after school how about teaching them on Saturday. Andro, I believe the material should be provided by a moderate(sex specialist) so it would be both closer to the middle of both liberals and conservatives. Then the curriculum should be discussed in a PTA forum. One more point on what you said since the kid has only got to get a 70 if there was some info the parents felt uncomfortable about, I am sure it wouldn’t be enough to make them(kids) fail. To everyone else I want to clear something up. I don’t tell my daughters that every guy is just out to get in their pants. What I told them was that sex is a wonderful thing between a husband and wife. And there will be a guy that they will meet one day that will be willing to give his life as commitment to you(girls) and they will be willing to wait to get married to have sex with them. But I did warn them about scammers that will say or do anything to get what they want. So to be safe and make sure you have sex with the right guy he should willing to marry you. Does that explain what explained to them better? ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/252 "2000-12-19T22:24:52Z")
**Wildest Bill** : > [@](#): > > What I told them was that sex is a wonderful thing between a husband and wife. … But I did warn them about scammers that will say or do anything to get what they want. So to be safe and make sure you have sex with the right guy he should willing to marry you. You’re treating sex as something that girls possess and guys want to take away. What will they think when they have boyfriends and suddenly realize that sex is something girls want as well? Either “Uh oh, why am I feeling this way? Johnny must have tricked me!” or “I guess Daddy was wrong.” I don’t think you want either of those. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/253 "2000-12-19T22:27:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > Ok if you don’t think it would work after school how about teaching them on Saturday. The point is that if other kids know you’re getting remedial education in sex, you’re going to get beat on. And no matter when it happens, the other kids are going to know. The advantage of uniform sex ed over your suggested approach is that everyone has to take it, so no one is singled out as not knowing about (gasp) **sex**. I don’t see this as an insurmountable problem, but it is something that would have to be dealt with. How about a system where you can take the exam as many times as you need to, but you have to pass it to graduate, and there is a guidance counselor or school nurse or someone who is trained to answer questions? Going to see the school nurse is usually a little more private than taking a formal class. It also gives kids another source of information if they want to seek it out (even if their parents don’t want them knowing about it). > [@](#): > > To everyone else I want to clear something up. I don’t tell my daughters that every guy is just out to get in their pants. What I told them was that sex is a wonderful thing between a husband and wife. And there will be a guy that they will meet one day that will be willing to give his life as commitment to you(girls) and they will be willing to wait to get married to have sex with them. But I did warn them about scammers that will say or do anything to get what they want. So to be safe and make sure you have sex with the right guy he should willing to marry you. Does that explain what explained to them better? I don’t know if it explains what you’ve actually told them better, but the content is better. I don’t personally agree that you should only have sex if you’re going to marry the guy (or already have), but if you’re just telling them that there are manipulative assholes in the world, you’re absolutely correct. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/254 "2000-12-19T23:24:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\*You’re treating sex as something that girls possess and guys want to take away. What will they think when they have boyfriends and suddenly realize that sex is something girls want as well? Either “Uh oh, why am I feeling this way? Johnny must have tricked me!” or “I guess Daddy was wrong.” I don’t think you want either of those. \*\* Well, **Mr2001** managed to say what I was thinking and far more succintly than I probably would have managed. **Bill** , _I’m_ a woman, and I was once a girl, and trust me, “lustful thoughts” are **not** exclusive to the male of the species. To tell your daughters otherwise is to encourage them to suppress their own sexuality. That said, I also don’t have a problem with you telling them that there are manipulative assholes out there. I mean, I wasn’t kidding when I said in some ways (other than the fundamentalism ;)) you’re sounding an awful lot like **my** father - except he never tried to convince me that sex was the _only_ thing men/boys wanted. [sub]Can I possibly use more emphasis? Eesh. And yes, comparing anyone I’ve met only through a message board to my father frightens me…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/255 "2000-12-21T18:39:19Z")
> [@](#): > > **Ben** : Atheists constitute what? 2%? > **Me** : The statistics I have seen place atheists/agnostics at about 11-14% If you look at just atheists alone, it’s usually about 5-7% Don’t mind me, just belatedly finding a cite for Ben. [http://www.gallup.com/poll/indicators/indreligion4.asp](http://www.gallup.com/poll/indicators/indreligion4.asp) says that 5% of americans don’t believe in God or a higher power, with 1% as “other” and miscelleanous “no opinion”. So I think my recollection of the stats showing about 5-7% atheist is probably correct. I know I’ve seen better statistics somewhere that had a category for agnostic instead of the simple “believe in God/don’t beleive in God” dichotomy, but I haven’t been able to track them down again. I’ll post 'em if I turn up anything new, though. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/256 "2000-12-21T19:16:48Z")
Thanks, Gaudere! -Ben ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/257 "2000-12-21T19:41:09Z")
Ben, you’re not ever allowed to use that cite, you know. It’s secondhand. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/258 "2000-12-21T19:48:41Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > [http://www.gallup.com/poll/indicators/indreligion4.asp](http://www.gallup.com/poll/indicators/indreligion4.asp) Look, now it’s third-hand! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/259 "2000-12-22T02:23:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gaudere \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > [http://www.gallup.com/poll/indicators/indreligion4.asp](http://www.gallup.com/poll/indicators/indreligion4.asp) > > Look, now it’s third-hand! 😃 \*\* Of course, if I’m not happy with the percentage of atheists, I can just put the cite between two mirrors. It will be reflected back and forth an infinite number of times, making it an infinite-hand cite, and therefore worthless. Remember, according to DITWD, if you have no cites to back up a point, then that means the diametrically opposite point of view is true! -Ben ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2000, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/260 "2000-12-25T05:43:12Z")
Hey, Wildest Bill, would you have your children learn about sex from the Internet? No, no, not from sleazy and potentially chat rooms, but from sites that you approve of? I stayed at home for the most part during my childhood, and learned about sex from books, _The joy of Sex_ and _Kama Sutra_ kind. Hey, since this is the sex-ed thread, and this is the Straightdope, I have a question: In the _Kama Sutra_, there is a passage repeated several times that say, in several variations “Under no circumstances should a man marry a woman named after a flower”. I wonder why did the author put such an emphasis on that, and was it a cultural thing or can it be applied today? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337.md?page=14)