# A Lawyer Says Abstinence Should Not Be Taught in School? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 6, 2000, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337 "2000-12-06T18:22:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/161 "2000-12-12T19:18:37Z")
I’m still involved, but I don’t have anything to add at this point, unfortnately, except: Excellent work, guys. Bill-while Andros may be tongue in cheek, (he? She?) has a point: Why does knowledge, or science go against God? Could not God have started evolution? Ignorance IS of the Devil, Billy Boy. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/162 "2000-12-12T19:18:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > \*\*Just what are you talking about? I admitted I was wrong. In a secular world which we live it is better to teach both abstinence and if you are promiscuous please use a condom(laxex not animal skins). \*\* That is not what you claimed. What you claimed was that non-Christians can’t learn abstinence, and Christians can. When I pointed out that your argument is fallacious and offensive, you declined to reply. > [@](#): > > \*\* BTW Ben do you have kids? \*\* This, of course, is a classic ad hominem. No, I don’t have kids- I just have to live in a world full of teen mothers and AIDS. > [@](#): > > \*\* > I don’t know what you meant by me “weaselling” maybe that I didn’t respond yesterday heh I had a different thought that I wanted to discuss. And since I have responded to your “thoughts” :rolleyes: again, I suppose you owe me an apology buddy. \*\* First you say you didn’t respond, then you say you did. Anyway, there are a number of questions that you simply haven’t addressed: 1. Do you believe that Hindus and Muslims cannot be taught abstinence? 2. Why don’t married men have to use condoms? 3. Do you believe that masturbation is sinful? 4. Do you believe that anal sex is sinful? That will do for starters. I must note that Danielinthewolvesden- another weaselling pseudo-Christian like yourself- is now somewhat infamous for using the same tactic. He ignores counterarguments, and then when you ask him why he is weaselling, he replies that he actually answered all the questions that were put to him. It’s remarkable: not only are you people too dishonest to tell the truth, you’re not smart enough to realize that anyone can look back in the thread and see that you’re lying. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Whatever, you do to.(you definetely said this to knock Christians). So how dishonest are you? Why don’t you just admit it you don’t like Christians(which makes you hateful doesn’t it). Calling us rude, stupid and hateful(why don’t you look in a mirror buddy? \*\* “Hateful” clearly comes from your erroneous belief that I have a problem with Christianity. “Rude”? I’m not the one who talks about “sludge packing,” nor do I weasel, which I consider to be a serious disrespect to one’s interlocutors. “Stupid”? Well, one of us doesn’t see a point in learning unless it puts money in his pocket, and the other one is studing number theory for fun. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Yes, it is the word of God that we live by(or at least try to). \*\* In your case, I have to wonder how hard you are really trying. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Where as you have no words that you live(other than science) by because you are here 70 to 80 years and your done. \*\* This, of course, is a stereotype. File it under “hateful”? “Rude”? “Stupid”? Or all of the above? > [@](#): > > \*\* > I don’t agree with this especially in todays climate. Lots of people are born into atheistic homes. \*\* Surveys indicate that 95+% of Americans call themselves Christians. Atheists constitute what? 2%? What is it with you people and this disingenuous persecution complex? > [@](#): > > \*\* > Take yours for example, are you even going to share the Gospel with your kids to let them make up their own minds \*\* Are you going to let your kids make up their own mind about the Koran? Or about abstinence? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > \*\* > or are you going to shove your monkey theory down their throats and say Christianity is a bunch of ignorant, stupid, rude and hateful people. \*\* Yeah, right- it’s not rude to call evolution the “monkey theory.” > [@](#): > > \*\*Hopefully your kids will be smart enough to see right through you. \*\* How can you complain about me characterizing you as “ignorant” when you don’t see any point in learning anything that won’t put money in your pocket? Look, WB, you can’t even spell! Your posts are peppered with inarticulate grunts! Can’t you express disagreement without grunting at people? -Ben ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/163 "2000-12-12T19:29:05Z")
Gaudere, First I know that in y’all theory of evolution you are not saying man evolved from a monkey. I learned this along time ago from Falcon I think. Anyway I just do cause it sounds funny and y’all get so riled up over it. And don’t think I am trolling atheist say all kinds of mean and stupid things about my religion. So what is good for the goose is good for gander. Believe me I do not want this to turn into a evolution thread either. I’ll only say one more thing about it. Do you mind putting a disclaimer on it before you teach it? Something like, “Class, we are now going to learn about the theory of evolution. Why some people believe it to be fact others do not and believe that a higher diety created the world. We are just going to teach you the fundlementals so you can be more well rounded and choose for yourself.” I don’t know something like that. Seems fair to me because I am not mentioning the God of Abraham, Budda, Ron Hubbard or any entity by name. But it lets the kids make up there own mind. Also gaudere, while I appreciate you telling Phil not to flame here do you to give a suggestion where to flame me? And back to topic. It seems like everybody that is disagreeing with me about what teach kids in school don’t have kids. So don’t you think me as being a parent should have more to say about my kids learn in school than someone without kids? I will say one last time I will concede that abstinence and telling the kids that are going to promiscuous that a condom is safer than no condom but it is not full proof and if you have sex you could die is ok with me. 😉 But I do not think it is the govt business to teach kids about alternative lifestyle, anal sex, S & M and other forms of debauchery. I mean what’s next taking the kids down to Mexico for a field and watching woman and the donkey show? ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/164 "2000-12-12T19:29:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Atheists constitute what? 2%? The statistics I have seen place atheists/agnostics at about 11-14% If you look at just atheists alone, it’s usually about 5-7%. The demarcation between the two categories is a little fuzzy; for example, depending on how you define it, I am either an atheist or an agnostic, though I self-identify as “atheist”. This doesn’t mean that Bill doesn’t appear to have a unsupported view of the extent and influence of atheists. Most atheists just want to be left alone, IMHO, and to avoid having a religion that do not believe in force-fed to their children in public schools. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/165 "2000-12-12T19:43:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Also gaudere, while I appreciate you telling Phil not to flame here do you to give a suggestion where to flame me? It’s boilerplate. I tell nearly everyone I warn to “take it to the Pit”. It’s not my job to try to make the MB a sweet, happy fluffy-bunny place–I have no personal problem with flaming, anyhow–I just keep flames out of the improper forum. > [@](#): > > Why some people believe it to be fact others do not and believe that a higher diety created the world. _Evolution does not say in any way that God did not create the world!_ > [@](#): > > But I do not think it is the govt business to teach kids about alternative lifestyle, anal sex, S & M and other forms of debauchery. Why is anal sex debauchery? Why is masturbation debauchery? Why is oral sex debauchery? Do you have any reasons to back this up besides “I personally dislike these sexual practices, so I don’t want anyone to learn anything about them in school, even though teaching the facts about them will very likely prevent the spead of STDs.” > [@](#): > > I mean what’s next taking the kids down to Mexico for a field and watching woman and the donkey show? Sex ed classes–at least _my_ sex ed classes–never had actual images of sexual acts. It was simply: “This is what oral sex is. If you do this without a condom, you may get X, Y and Z diseases. The chances of getting AIDS from oral sex is extremely low, but it has been known to happen. You cannot get pregnant from oral sex. This is what anal sex is. There is a somewhat increased chance of sexual diseases from anal sex due to tearing of the tissues. This can be protected against by using condoms with a lubricant.” And so on. You’re constructing a strawman argument here; teaching about anal sex does not require pictures of people performing anal sex. ---
**Author:** ![Cantrip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Cantrip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cantrip)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/166 "2000-12-12T20:09:20Z")
Hey, **WB** , I’m a parent (2 kids) and I fully agree with **Gaudere** , **Ben** and the others who have been trying (extremely patiently) to explain the facts to you, despite what appears to me to be your willful failure to recognize those facts. I would rather have the schools give my kids (1) knowledge and (2) an intellectual basis to question and learn from that knowledge than have them not teach something because you don’t like it. BTW, I’m Jewish, and I’m sure you wouldn’t want the schools teaching that keeping kosher and worshipping God on Saturday, and not Sunday, is the “right” way to do things. All of our tax dollars go to the schools so that they can teach the _facts_; the beliefs need to be taught at home. So, the schools can teach about masturbation, oral sex, etc. Not a “how to” course, but what they are and what the risks are. Then your daughters (or my daughter) can come home and say, “Hey Dad, guess what I learned in school today.” In my house, I imagine (hope) that conversation (a) would happen, and (b) would lead to a conversation about sex in general and why I think it better for her to delay her first sexual experience. In your house, I imagine it would lead to you saying that those are all disgusting practices fit only for deviants, and you better not catch her doing anything like that ever, and don’t talk about it again. This despite the fact that the odds are good that your daughter has [already masturbated](http://www.geocities.com/~debbie_fox/n_m_stats.htm) by the time she approaches you about this. ---
**Author:** ![Cantrip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Cantrip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cantrip)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/167 "2000-12-12T20:14:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gaudere \* > teaching about anal sex does not require pictures of people performing anal sex. Although as a 16-year-old horny teenager, I certainly would have appreciated them. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/168 "2000-12-12T20:16:45Z")
\*Originally posted by Ben \* > [@](#): > > That is not what you claimed. What you claimed was that non-Christians can’t learn abstinence, and Christians can. Yes, non Christians can learn abstinence. > [@](#): > > This, of course, is a classic ad hominem. No, I don’t have kids- I just have to live in a world full of teen mothers and AIDS. Seems like if this really bothered you would be for more abstinence. > [@](#): > > . Do you believe that Hindus and Muslims cannot be taught abstinence? Yes, I am sure they can be taught abstinence. Never said they couldn’t. Matter of fact I wouldn’t be surprised that their religion has something to do > [@](#): > > 1. Why don’t married men have to use condoms? Well, if you married a faithful wife and you are a faithful husband, you should not get any STDs therefor condomless sex. As far as the pregnacy thing I have used the pull out method might not be totally safe and scientific but it has worked for me and wife 14 years. > [@](#): > > 1. Do you believe that masturbation is sinful? This is a tough one. I guess if you can do it with out any lustful thoughts of any one other than your wife then it is ok. But I still don’t know for sure. Hey, I am being honest. > [@](#): > > 1. Do you believe that anal sex is sinful? Another tough one. The Bible says the marriage bed is sacred so I guess if both the husband and the wife agree it is ok. But I’m not totally for sure on this one either. > [@](#): > > He ignores counterarguments, and then when you ask him why he is weaselling, he replies that he actually answered all the questions that were put to him. It’s remarkable: not only are you people too dishonest to tell the truth, you’re not smart enough to realize that anyone can look back in the thread and see that you’re lying. I have answered your questions the best I can. I hope you don’t consider me a liar. Also, please explain to me how I stereotyped was being rude to atheist with the living for 70 to 80 year comment? Do athiest think there is something beyound this life? > [@](#): > > Surveys indicate that 95+% of Americans call themselves Christians. Yea, I have seen some of these surveys. Some people think Jesus sinned. Some people don’t really believe Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world. Some catholics believe they are Christians just becuase they are Catholic. So I don’t put to much stock in that 95% number. > [@](#): > > Are you going to let your kids make up their own mind about the Koran? Or about abstinence? Yes. What else can I do. You teach your kids the best you can then they go out on their own. Now I answered your question how about you answer mine? Are you going to teach your kids the Gospel? > [@](#): > > Yeah, right- it’s not rude to call evolution the “monkey theory.” Who cares? It is a theory not a deity. Why do you care what I call it? Is evolution something that you put sanctity in? Would it bother you that I call gravity the up and down force who cares? But see the evolution means more to y’all then you admit it does in a way it is your religion heck y’all put it on the back of cars(the little Darwin stickers) > [@](#): > > How can you complain about me characterizing you as “ignorant” when you don’t see any point in learning anything that won’t put money in your pocket? That is not what I said. I just gave that as an example. It does not help anything(unless a biology major) but to try to explain away God. > [@](#): > > Look, WB, you can’t even spell! Tell me something that I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Kyberneticist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kyberneticist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyberneticist)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/169 "2000-12-12T20:17:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > \*\* > Anyway to your point evolution is not a scientific fact. There is something called the missing “link” so to totally believe it you have got to have faith there is some monkey turning into man some where frozen in the ice. Just as I have faith that there is a God in the sky and in me. But that is not the way it is taught. > > …and… > > Does any of this make sense to you? > > I mean why do you want kids to learn evolution so bad? Who cares they are not going to use evolution to make money. So what is the point? > \*\* Been reading this thread with bemused horror and fascination, but had to post to say that the conjunction of that attempt at something of a “scientific” refutation of human evolution and his question was quite hilarious. As for making money through knowledge evolution, I would assume it means that Billy’s kids will not be working in the burgeoning field of biotech. Presumably they’ll stick with raking in the dough through more constructive, tried and true methods like televangelism. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/170 "2000-12-12T20:23:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kyberneticist \* > \*\*As for making money through knowledge [of] evolution, I would assume it means that Billy’s kids will not be working in the burgeoning field of biotech. > > Presumably they’ll stick with raking in the dough through more constructive, tried and true methods like televangelism. \*\* Honestly, Kyb, did you miss the bit where he said he has two _daughters_? Clearly they’ll not be bringing in any money of their own, but finding a nice man (who only wants to get in their skirts) to bring it in for them. :rolleyes: As for the rest of this, Bill, I may see you in the pit yet… ---
**Author:** ![Screwtape](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Screwtape](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Screwtape)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/171 "2000-12-12T20:25:44Z")
Folks, there are so many idiocies in here I don’t know where to start. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > \*\*Funny, > > Screw Tape, > > I thought weren’t going to respond to this thread anymore huh. 😉 > \*\* I never said that. I just implied that you might be a willfully-ignorant waste of oxygen, and suggested that we might have more fun by doing something else than trying to take a clue-by-four to your adamantine pride in your ignorance. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Anyway to your point evolution is not a scientific fact. There is something called the missing “link” so to totally believe it you have got to have faith there is some monkey turning into man some where frozen in the ice. \*\* Lawsey me. You really haven’t read it, have you? Okay. Go to the library (just ask someone where the “liberry” is), and check out everything there is by Stephen Jay Gould. Come back when you know what you’re critizing. > [@](#): > > \*\*Second, you didn’t answer the question how about letting me have my tax money to send my kid to the school I want them to go to and you can take your tax money to send your kid to the school you want. \*\* How about this? The public schools teach only things have been proven by repeatable experiments that produce the same results, and your Sundy meetin’ gets to teach whatever y’all want it to. > [@](#): > > \*\*And the Devil would use any means necessary of deception including evolution to decieve the masses so they will not believe in God and therefor steal another soul away from God. \*\* Of course, it must be a mighty handy thing to have a Devil around to whom you can ascribe anything that threatens your convenience. > [@](#): > > **I mean why do you want kids to learn evolution so bad? Who cares they are not going to use evolution to make money. So what is the point?** Folks, it is with difficulty that I dignify this with an answer. But here goes: Evolution is just one verifiable, scientific principle we want them to understand. We want them to learn to apply tests to the world around them, and learn from the results of those tests. That is what gave us longer lives, reduced sickness, improved the quality of life…I could go on. But if you just cannot see the glory of the Creator reflected in Descent with Modification, Punctuated Equilibrium, Multiplication of Speciation and Natural Selection, than it is you who are the one who is choosing to live with Devils. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/172 "2000-12-12T20:49:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > That is not what I said. I just gave that as an example. It does not help anything(unless a biology major) but to try to explain away God. For the last time, Bill, EVOLUTION DOES NOT IMPLY THAT THERE IS NO GOD, ALRIGHT? Sheesh! It does NOT “explain away God.” Did you ever read “Inherit the Wind?” Did it ever occur to you that maybe God set evolution in motion? I mean, He’s God. Don’t you think God is capable of causing evolution? Also, are you aware that the pill is not used for birth control alone? Suppose a doctor prescribed it to your daughter because she was having severe menstrual discomfort, or endometriosis? And sex ed is not just about sex-do you object to them talking about nocturnal emissions and the menstrual cycle? _Kathi takes a deep breath and reminds herself: This is not the Pit, this is not the Pit, this is not the Pit…_ ---
**Author:** ![Cantrip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Cantrip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cantrip)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/173 "2000-12-12T21:01:37Z")
**Gaudere** , while I appreciate you editing my double post, couldn’t you have retained the post with the proper coding and trashed the ugly, misshapen post that instead remains? 😉 **Wildest Bill** , just to make sure you saw this, I am a parent of two kids and I completely agree with **Gaudere** and **Ben** and everyone else who has been arguing with you. Oh, and thanks for the info that Catholics aren’t Christian. Boy, you learn something new every day. :rolleyes: Well, **I** do, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/174 "2000-12-12T21:08:06Z")
[sarcasm] Gosh, Bill, if you’re a Protestant, not only are you not a Christian, you’re a heretic who will suffer in hell for all eternity for denying the doctrines of the One True Catholic and Apostolic Church! [/sarcasm] ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/175 "2000-12-12T21:09:56Z")
> [@](#): > > As far as the pregnacy thing I have used the pull out method might not be totally safe and scientific but it has worked for me and wife 14 years. What do you call people who use coitus interruptus? _Parents._ 😉 Please tell your daughters that “pulling out” is not a reliably effective way to prevent pregnancy, despite how it has worked for you. The “pre-come” emitted by a man’s penis during arousal often has more than enough sperm in it to cause pregnancy, even if he pulls out long before ejactulation. You and your wife have been lucky, to have not gotten pregnant by using that method. The chances of getting pregnant over a year if withdrawal is practised by the average couple is 19%, or about one in five will become preganant. > [@](#): > > The Bible says the marriage bed is sacred so I guess if both the husband and the wife agree it is ok. But I’m not totally for sure on this one either. OK, so then you have no real objection to various sexual practices and the accompanying risks being discussed in sex ed, right? > [@](#): > > Is evolution something that you put sanctity in? Would it bother you that I call gravity the up and down force who cares? You should care. If you refer to gravity as the “up/down force”, how seriously do you think people will take your arguments? Would you trust a doctor who calls your heart the “beaty-thing”? Would you trust a mechanic who calls the carburetor the “round metal dohickey”? Using proper terms is a sign of intelligence and education, and someone who tries to argue against the theory of evolution and who calls it the “monkey theory” is NOT going to be taken seriously. > [@](#): > > But see the evolution means more to y’all then you admit it does in a way it is your religion heck y’all put it on the back of cars(the little Darwin stickers) … > It does not help anything(unless a biology major) but to try to explain away God. You forgot geology, astronomy, genetics… ::ahem:: MANY DEVOUT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION BECAUSE IT IS A SOLID SCIENTIFIC THEORY SUPPORTED WITH VAST AMOUNTS OF EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. EVOLUTION DOES NOT DENY THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. MANY DEVOUT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION BECAUSE IT IS A SOLID SCIENTIFIC THEORY SUPPORTED WITH VAST AMOUNTS OF EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. EVOLUTION DOES NOT DENY THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. MANY DEVOUT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION BECAUSE IT IS A SOLID SCIENTIFIC THEORY SUPPORTED WITH VAST AMOUNTS OF EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. EVOLUTION DOES NOT DENY THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. Got it, Bill? ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/176 "2000-12-12T21:12:37Z")
[Moderator Hat ON] Guys, let’s ease off on the near-direct insults of Bill. Slam the post, not the poster. 'Kay? [Moderator Hat OFF] > [@](#): > > Gaudere, while I appreciate you editing my double post, couldn’t you have retained the post with the proper coding and trashed the ugly, misshapen post that instead remains? Oops. :o I didn’t look at it closely enough. ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/177 "2000-12-12T21:17:24Z")
\*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > [@](#): > > For the last time, Bill, EVOLUTION DOES NOT IMPLY THAT THERE IS NO GOD, ALRIGHT? Sheesh! It does NOT “explain away God.” Did you ever read “Inherit the Wind?” No. But in this book does the author state that God started evolution? Do they also give this book to kids when they are teaching evolution? > [@](#): > > Did it ever occur to you that maybe God set evolution in motion? I mean, He’s God. Don’t you think God is capable of causing evolution? Yes. Did it ever occur to you that God doesn’t need evolution to do start this planet and humans? But in school they don’t mention God starting evolution now do they? > [@](#): > > Also, are you aware that the pill is not used for birth control alone? Come on give me a break. Yes I know this. > [@](#): > > Suppose a doctor prescribed it to your daughter because she was having severe menstrual discomfort, or endometriosis? No problem. > [@](#): > > And sex ed is not just about sex-do you object to them talking about nocturnal emissions and the menstrual cycle? No. Of course not. I just don’t want them talking about the different acts of sex. Ok? Y’all bring up masturbation. Like a kid is going to need to learn about maturbation. Come on whatever. Anal sex absolutely not there is no reason that need to come up in a class room ever! Oral sex if a kid is brighter than a tree I think he or she will know what that is? Just exactly do y’all want to cover in Oral Sex 101 anyway? > [@](#): > > _Kathi takes a deep breath and reminds herself: This is not the Pit, this is not the Pit, this is not the Pit…_ Don’t hyperventilate. There is no reason to flame me as there is no reason for me to flame you. This is a very emotional charged personal issue because involves kids. I guarantee if one of y’all came over to a Christian or even a more conservative board, y’all would be taking the same flaq that I am taking from y’all. Does that make sense? ---
**Author:** ![Falcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falcon)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/178 "2000-12-12T21:26:33Z")
_laughs_ Yep, they would. And maybe even get told they believe in demons. :rolleyes: And kids need to learn about oral sex and anal sex BECAUSE YOU CAN GET DISEASES FROM IT! If all you tell your kids is “sex is bad,” then I pity your daughters. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/179 "2000-12-12T21:29:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > \*\*\*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > > > [@](#): > > > > For the last time, Bill, EVOLUTION DOES NOT IMPLY THAT THERE IS NO GOD, ALRIGHT? Sheesh! It does NOT “explain away God.” Did you ever read “Inherit the Wind?” > > No. But in this book does the author state that God started evolution? Do they also give this book to kids when they are teaching evolution?\*\* Bill, it isn’t a book. It’s a play. A very famous play and perennial stage favorite which was made into an extremely entertaining movie starring Spencer Tracy, Fredric March and Gene Kelly. (There’s also an inferior TV version starring Jack Lemmon and George C. Scott.) It’s a highly fictionalized account of the Scopes trial. In one memorable scene, “Matthew Brady,” who is prosecuting “Bert Cates,” takes the stand to be questioned by “Henry Drummond,” who is defending Cates. Drummond questions Brady (who is also a minister) on the book of Genesis, among other things. It’s a wonderful piece of both the stage and American culture, and worth anybody’s time to read. I first read it in the 10th grade, and although I was religious at the time, I played the part of Drummond for the purposes of in-class readings. Pretty funny, given my current state of mind. > [@](#): > > Yes. Did it ever occur to you that God doesn’t need evolution to do start this planet and humans? But in school they don’t mention God starting evolution now do they? Why would they? God is an unproveable proposition that you either believe or you don’t. Science classes can only work with the evidence they have. I cannot believe that you are as ignorant of the processes, findings and nature of science as you appear to be. It simply boggles the mind. ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337/180 "2000-12-12T21:45:11Z")
Gaudere, You are tooooo funny. I am at work and lost it when I got to the “beaty thing”. My secretary is looking at me crazier than y’all think I am for laughing out loud out of the blue. Ok, I’ll give you that argument. No more calling it the “monkey theory” except for special occassions. 😃 As far as the rest of your post. Only 20% effective yikes I better be more careful I can’t imagine paying for three weddings. :rolleyes: The Catholic comment came out wrong and I apologize. There are many Catholics that are Christians. But just because you are a Catholic does not make you a Christian. Just the same as being a Protestant, Methodist or any other religion does not make you a Christian. Ok? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lawyer-says-abstinence-should-not-be-taught-in-school/44337.md?page=10)