# A lesson for oppressed minorities: don't leave your memorials in the hands of any government **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2025, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lesson-for-oppressed-minorities-dont-leave-your-memorials-in-the-hands-of-any-government/1014362 "2025-02-15T18:40:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2025, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lesson-for-oppressed-minorities-dont-leave-your-memorials-in-the-hands-of-any-government/1014362/1 "2025-02-15T18:40:52Z")
Now the Stonewall website has removed all reference to Transgender, and is removing Queer. I don’t know what the National Park Service is doing to the physical memorial, but I can only suppose that it will follow suit, or already has. > **[Park Service erases 'transgender' on Stonewall website, uses the term 'LGB'...](https://www.npr.org/2025/02/14/g-s1-48923/stonewall-monument-transgender-park-service)** > > The website deleted all mentions of "transgender" and "queer" in its history of the Stonewall riots, and only referred to the riots' impact on lesbian, gay and bisexual people. The first thing that occurred to me is that some reputable LGBTQ organization should raise funds to buy it from the feds, and restore it to what it should be. I’ll subscribe right now. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2025, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lesson-for-oppressed-minorities-dont-leave-your-memorials-in-the-hands-of-any-government/1014362/2 "2025-02-15T19:55:16Z")
Ah so that explains this. I just walked past the Stonewall memorial earlier today and noticed there were all kinds of handwritten posters and signs taped up about trans rights and not erasing trans history and big trans flags flying. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2025, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lesson-for-oppressed-minorities-dont-leave-your-memorials-in-the-hands-of-any-government/1014362/3 "2025-02-15T22:35:59Z")
I have to admit my first thought was what were they doing to the [Stonewall Jackson Memorial](https://www.nps.gov/places/000/stonewall-jackson-monument.htm) that had to do with transgender confederates. I then realized that the confederate memorials were going to be doing quite well under the new administration, too well. 😧 ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2025, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lesson-for-oppressed-minorities-dont-leave-your-memorials-in-the-hands-of-any-government/1014362/4 "2025-02-15T22:49:07Z")
Private ownership of the memorial is only a temporary solution. Our wise leader will get rid of all the woke leftists in government and industry. Any medical professional found guilty of helping a patient ‘transition’ will lose their license and spend time in prison. Rather than having whole sick communities and industries feed their delusions, these people will be given actual therapy until they realize that they are not trans. Heil Trump! ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2025, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lesson-for-oppressed-minorities-dont-leave-your-memorials-in-the-hands-of-any-government/1014362/5 "2025-02-15T23:13:54Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Private ownership of the memorial is only a temporary solution. Temporary is better than nothing. Preserving history is worth doing, and it doesn’t have to be done by people in government (the fewer of those the better is my main theme here) or in industry. Grass-roots support might be a lot harder to stamp out. Some idiot supposed trans supporter quoted in the article says (paraphrased) “You can’t change history by removing a couple of letters from a memorial.” Of course you can, that’s how you change history, by making sure everyone forgets what really happened. As in, the victors write history and everyone else gets forgotten. Maybe we can’t do everything, but we should do what we can. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2025, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lesson-for-oppressed-minorities-dont-leave-your-memorials-in-the-hands-of-any-government/1014362/6 "2025-02-15T23:23:26Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Temporary is better than nothing. That depends on how much time, effort and money are put into the solution and just how temporary it is. > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Preserving history is worth doing History is what ever Big Brother says it is. There are no trans people. There have never been any trans people. Don’t you love Big Brother? > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Of course you can, that’s how you change history, by making sure everyone forgets what really happened. As in, the victors write history and everyone else gets forgotten. Now, you get it. Clearly, we disagree on exactly how bad things will get and for how long. I say things will get very bad and every day it seems more likely we are looking at the end of American democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lesson-for-oppressed-minorities-dont-leave-your-memorials-in-the-hands-of-any-government/1014362/7 "2025-02-16T03:28:12Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > That depends on how much time, effort and money are put into the solution and just how temporary it is. And how important the issue is. I think this is where we really differ. > [@DocCathode](#): > > Now, you get it. This comes across as condescending. Of course I get it. It is exactly the reason why this is a good place to draw a line and fight, not just for the short term, but for our posterity, to preserve the truth of our history. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lesson-for-oppressed-minorities-dont-leave-your-memorials-in-the-hands-of-any-government/1014362/8 "2025-02-16T03:33:58Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > And how important the issue is. I think this is where we really differ. I don’t think we differ on the importance of this issue. I think where we differ is that I see the end of American democracy and this country becoming a fascist state. People could spend time and money to buy the Stonewall monument. At the rate things are going, it will not be standing for very long regardless of who owns it. LGBTQ+ rights are already under attack and will be gone shortly. The rights of various other groups will follow. All resources shoudl be used to preserve democracy- other wise they are wasted. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lesson-for-oppressed-minorities-dont-leave-your-memorials-in-the-hands-of-any-government/1014362/9 "2025-02-16T03:41:30Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > History is what ever Big Brother says it is. There are no trans people. There have never been any trans people. > Don’t you love Big Brother? So you’ve surrendered, then. Good to know. Will you be actively assisting your masters in rounding up the untermensch, or will you just be providing them the names and home addresses of all your non-gender-conforming “friends”? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lesson-for-oppressed-minorities-dont-leave-your-memorials-in-the-hands-of-any-government/1014362/10 "2025-02-16T03:56:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So you’ve surrendered, then. Good to know. Will you be actively assisting your masters in rounding up the untermensch, or will you just be providing them the names and home addresses of all your non-gender-conforming “friends”? It is now my turn to be offended. I will not collaborate. I will not surrender. I repeat that all resources must be directed at preventing the end of American democracy. If we do not stop the government from becoming entirely and openly fascist, the Stonewall monument will be entirely destroyed regardless of who owns it. LGBTQ+ people will have no rights. Brown people will be, at best, second class citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lesson-for-oppressed-minorities-dont-leave-your-memorials-in-the-hands-of-any-government/1014362/11 "2025-02-16T04:00:35Z")
History is written by the victors. And here I wasted all those years in college reading history written by the historians. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lesson-for-oppressed-minorities-dont-leave-your-memorials-in-the-hands-of-any-government/1014362/12 "2025-02-16T04:12:26Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I will not collaborate. I will not surrender. Then stop talking like all hope is already lost. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lesson-for-oppressed-minorities-dont-leave-your-memorials-in-the-hands-of-any-government/1014362/13 "2025-02-16T04:14:45Z")
My small hope for this thread was to draw attention to a general issue, that is, who controls the messages of such things as memorials, especially those that focus on the history (and progress) of oppressed minorities, and that it is not wise to trust the control of such memorials to the very organizations that participated in the oppressions in the first place. It is easy to accept federal (or state or local government) dollars thrown into the pot at a time when it is politically expedient for those in power to do so, but if we did not already know it, we now have been shown that we cannot depend on the truth being maintained with any integrity by those institutions. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lesson-for-oppressed-minorities-dont-leave-your-memorials-in-the-hands-of-any-government/1014362/14 "2025-02-16T10:31:15Z")
I understand the outrage. Unfortunately, you can’t rely on the hope that a philanthropist or non-profit will step forward to buy, and forever maintain, a historic site. Please consider: - How many historic sites have we lost _because_ they were government-run? - How many historic sites have we lost to the vagaries of the private sector? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lesson-for-oppressed-minorities-dont-leave-your-memorials-in-the-hands-of-any-government/1014362/15 "2025-02-16T12:43:12Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Now the Stonewall website has removed all reference to Transgender Besides all the obvious reasons, this is especially absurd because the Stonewall riots were led, in part, by transgender people. > **[Marsha P. Johnson](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsha_P._Johnson)** > > Marsha P. Johnson (August 24, 1945 – July 6, 1992) was an American gay liberation activist and self-identified drag queen. Known as an outspoken advocate for gay rights, she was one of the prominent figures in the Stonewall uprising of 1969. > Johnson was a member of the Gay Liberation Front (GLF) and co-founded the radical activist group Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries (STAR), alongside close friend Sylvia Rivera. Popular in New York's gay community, she was also active in the city... > **[Sylvia Rivera](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Rivera)** > > Sylvia Rivera (July 2, 1951 – February 19, 2002) was an American gay liberation and transgender rights activist who was also a noted community worker in New York. Rivera, who identified as a drag queen for most of her life and later as a transgender person, participated in demonstrations with the Gay Liberation Front. > With close friend Marsha P. Johnson, Rivera co-founded the Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries (STAR), a group dedicated to helping homeless young drag queens, gay youth, ... ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lesson-for-oppressed-minorities-dont-leave-your-memorials-in-the-hands-of-any-government/1014362/16 "2025-02-16T15:45:49Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > I understand the outrage. Unfortunately, you can’t rely on the hope that a philanthropist or non-profit will step forward to buy, and forever maintain, a historic site. > > Please consider: > > - How many historic sites have we lost _because_ they were government-run? > - How many historic sites have we lost to the vagaries of the private sector? If this is directed at me, I am not expressing outrage, which I find to be a pointless exercise. I am pointing out a strategy error that has now turned around and bitten us in the ass. As for your points for us to consider, non-profits do this kind of thing all the time. They clearly need to be set up so as not to depend on government funds. I’m not sure who is the “we” you are referring to who have “lost” historic sites. Some historic sites supported by government funds have certainly been lost in recent years, and rightly so, as public opinion has changed against Confederate memorials. This illustrates the issue with government funding, which is now revealed to have at least as many vagaries as the private sector. As for not being able to rely on hope, I choose not to be hopeless. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-lesson-for-oppressed-minorities-dont-leave-your-memorials-in-the-hands-of-any-government/1014362/17 "2025-02-16T15:49:16Z")
I remember this one well from my years in San Diego: > **[Deal may save Mt. Soledad cross](https://www.militarypress.com/deal-may-save-mt-soledad-cross/)** > > DOD sells land for $1.4 million The enormous white cross that overlooks the Pacific Ocean atop the Mt. Soledad Veterans Memorial in San Diego isn’t going anywhere. The Mount Soledad Memorial Associ… The cross sits atop a ‘mountain’ that’s sort of a local mecca for bicyclists. There are two or three ways up to the top, from sea level. They’re all a helluva’ grind and they’re all beautiful, as are the panoramic views along the way and at the top. The cross didn’t bother me. I understood both sides of the argument. The Trump/Stonewall move? It’s beneath contempt and totally on-brand for the demagogue constantly pandering to bigots.