# A letter to Fred Phelps **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 9, 2002, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575 "2002-12-09T19:19:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/21 "2002-12-10T11:20:29Z")
\*\*Ender, \*\* as far as I know one daughter here in Topeka changed her name. She changed it from Phelps to Bird(as in “free as a…”) ---
**Author:** ![airdisc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e19adc/32.png) [@airdisc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/airdisc)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/22 "2002-12-10T11:52:04Z")
Actually Dave, statistically, only one or two would be gay. Of course, it is possible for several to be gay, or for none at all to be gay. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/23 "2002-12-10T17:38:00Z")
I wonder how many have actually given up their faith or turned to something other than Christianity. I think this nutjob is due to come to Ferndale Michigan ( about 40 miles from me) in the next two weeks. It is a gay haven and Phelps wants to boycott them. The city of ferndale has asked everyone to ignore this freak. Frankly, I’m surprised he has not been murdered by now. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/24 "2002-12-10T18:07:02Z")
It also makes it impossible for the other person to attack you without making an even greater ass of themself. You really want to piss off Phelps and show everyone what a hate filled bastard he is? Try this > [@](#): > > \*\*Words have power. If you haven’t gotten the message from gobear’s posts yet, people who believe as you do are quite happy to deny gay people the right to marry, the right to visit their beloved in the hospital, the right to leave their worldly goods to the person they love when they die, the right to rent a decent home, the right to hold a decent job, the right to walk down the street unmolested by people full of hate, even in extreme cases the right to remain alive. > > Kirkland’s faith has been trashed by people who are not willing to listen to what they have to say about what is possible and not possible for them to do, how they feel, what they’ve been through, who they really are – and instead take the same four passages of Scripture to paint them as evil, hateful people in a conspiracy to destroy the idea of a family and most of the moral standards of America – which I can vouch full well that they are mostly doing no such thing. > > You have every right to hold your opinions, and hopefully by interacting with others here to share them, to reshape them based on what you’ve learned (e.g., that Jack Chick is in error on what he understands Catholics and Mormons to believe). That doesn’t mean you need to become a Catholic or a Mormon; it means you know what they truly do believe, and disagree with it, instead of objecting to myths about their faith. > > It means that you treat your gay brothers and sisters with the love and compassion that Jesus would, not with cold quotations from the Bible on their particular sins. > > It is on the hands of the people who use the Bible for hateful purposes that the blood of those who turn away from God because of their hate will rest. And it will be a day of wrath for those who, out of their love for the Bible, support those who preach hate in God’s name. > > Your choice is quite simple. Can you show Christian love (and I emphatically do not mean warning about what happens to unrepentant sinners) to the people who have reviled you here? It will not mean renouncing your belief in the Bible as God’s word; it will simply mean employing the part of that book where Jesus tells us how to treat our fellow man, rather than the codified commandments of what Christians (or anybody else who fears God’s judgment) shalt not do. > > Can you love Kirkland or gobear in Christ’s name, as your brothers for whom He died? Or is it more important to rub in to them that they are forever condemned, without hope of true repentance and amendment of life, by your understanding of a couple of passages in the Bible? Because on the basis of the many-times-repeated fact that gays cannot change their orientation and God condemns gay sex and thought is as bad as deed when it comes to sex, they’re in a Catch-22 situation – and the last thing they need is to be harassed in this earthly life before they go to their punishment. > > Or maybe, just maybe, can you conceive of a God so compassionate that He understands what a gay person is going through, and loving enough to forgive them. > > Because He did. > > Your words have power to condemn, whether you meant them to or not. Kirkland then and now stands as an object lesson. Will you damn him with your quotes? Or will you show him that God’s love includes him too? > > I’d like to preach that message to every evangelical, fundamentalist, and literalist in the U.S. I get the chance only to say it to you. > > What will you choose? \*\* Obviously, the letter would need some editing. References to Gobear, Kirkland and H4E would have no meaning to Phelps. But rather than risk diminishing Poly’s wonderful sermon(I mean that sincerely. I keep a copy on my computer. It’s in the same directory I use for family photos, Talmud commentaries, and sacred texts), I presented it as written. Call Phelps a name, and he’ll be ready. He’s had plenty of practice responding to hate and anger with hate and anger. Speak to him with love and understanding, and he’ll have no idea what to do. ---
**Author:** ![Blackeyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f6c823/32.png) [@Blackeyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackeyes)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/25 "2002-12-10T21:16:12Z")
Saint Polycarp, a more noble man there rarely was. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/26 "2002-12-10T21:34:54Z")
From the _Godhatesfags_ site: > [@](#): > > Their marriage May 15, 1952 has been blessed of God with 13 children, 52 grandchildren (to date) and one great-grandchild (to date). I’m wondering what will happen after Fred Phelps dies. He’s the driving force behind the Westboro Baptist Church. Without his leadership, will it continue? Does he have a successor? If not, once ole Freddie kicks the bucket, the group will slowly but surely slide into the oblivion it so richly deserves! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/27 "2002-12-10T22:58:14Z")
This might be a [bit of nostalgia](http://www.ourdawson.com/phelps/phelps_watch.asp) for some of you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/28 "2002-12-11T13:02:29Z")
I’ve visited Phelps’ site and e mailed him a few times about his methods but I doubt I get a reply. He also has a site called [godhatesamerica.com](http://godhatesamerica.com). Even though I may agree with his stance on some things, I don’t agree with his methodology or attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/29 "2002-12-11T14:15:48Z")
But the methodology is born of the stance. When you stand in dung, you stink. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/30 "2002-12-11T14:27:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*Even though I may agree with his stance on some things, I don’t agree with his methodology or attitude. \*\* Ya know, **His4ever** , my first impulse was to ask you to be more specific about which stance you agree with. I have this tendency to give people enough rope to hang themselves with. But you seem determined to weave your own rope out of every thread you enter. Please, just stop. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/31 "2002-12-11T15:50:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*But the methodology is born of the stance. When you stand in dung, you stink. \*\* Well, you’re entitled to believe that but I certainly disagree with coloring someone with the same pencil color as Fred Phelps just because they happent to believe X is wrong. I may agree with Phelps about X but I certainly don’t consider myself like him. Just because someone disagrees with you guys about X doesn’t make that person a hateful, lying bigot. People are allowed to think and believe different than others on the board. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/32 "2002-12-11T15:54:23Z")
Then pick someone else who you agree with X about as long as they are not hateful and bigots like Phelps. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/33 "2002-12-11T16:21:03Z")
His4ever wrote: > [@](#): > > Well, you’re entitled to believe that but I certainly disagree with coloring someone with the same pencil color as Fred Phelps just because they happent to believe X is wrong. I may agree with Phelps about X but I certainly don’t consider myself like him. I’m not sure you quite understand what it is that Phelps believes. He has declared — _declared_ — that Matthew Shepard is burning in Hell, and that his whole faggot-loving family will go to hell as well. Do you agree? ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/34 "2002-12-11T17:49:46Z")
Well, **H4E** , think on this… How would you feel if we were discussing a site called, say, _[GodHatesAdulterers.com](http://GodHatesAdulterers.com)_? A site that advocated the death penalty for adulterers, which condemned adulterers to hell, which revelled in what they saw as adulterers’ eternal torment? That blamed adultery for the decay of the nation, and advocated an agenda of hate against adulterers everywhere? That used lies and slander to defame adulterers? And then someone on the boards came along and said that they agreed with their stance on some things? ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/35 "2002-12-11T17:51:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*Even though I may agree with his stance on some things, I don’t agree with his methodology or attitude. \*\* Isn’t his ‘stance’ pretty much solely that God hates? IE, God hates fags, God hates America, God hates this, God hates that… How can you as a christian agree with any stance that begins with those two words? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/36 "2002-12-11T20:26:42Z")
It is blasphemy Phelps produces, pure and simple. Even given that say, homosexuality IS a sin, God said we are not to hate our fellow man. Therefore, by proclaiming that God HATES PEOPLE, that’s wrong. He’s also nuts. See if you can find the old site that has his biography, as told by the Phelps kids who left the church. It’s pretty obvious the man is seriously, mentally ill. I don’t even think he’s just mean-I think he should be in an institution. When he dies, I’ll bet the whole family falls apart. Read about the guy who made his kids go door to door every single day selling candy just to support HIM through law school-even on Christmas day. How he starved and beat the kids and made them exercise excessively, even the littlest. How he fed them nothing but wrotten curds-powdered milk and boiling water in big tubs stored in an alcove. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/37 "2002-12-11T20:29:35Z")
Ah, here we are: [Addicted to Hate](http://www.godhatesfundies.com/misc/ath/) I don’t think he’s like this because he thinks homosexuality is immoral. I think it’s more the just needs a scapegoat. It’s pretty obvious he’s not in his right mind. Stay away from him, **His4ever**. This isn’t about disagreement. Even if I DID agree with him, I wouldn’t support him, because he’s mentally unstable and dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/38 "2002-12-11T20:52:39Z")
Also, our own **Friedo** ’s [www.godhatesfundies.com](http://www.godhatesfundies.com) has a link to a complete biography of Phelps. And, dear, what **Guinastasia** said. The term “nutcase” gets thrown around a lot on this board, but this man is seriously monomaniac and, from accounts I’ve read, dangerous to persons who get involved with him and his crusade. The Focus on the Family stuff, for example, is very much in agreement with what I know of your stance on religion and morality, strongly disliked by a lot of people here for it, but it at least is working within the system and from a more-or-less rational perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/39 "2002-12-11T22:09:07Z")
That’s **Friedo** ’s website? NEAT!!! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/40 "2002-12-11T22:43:28Z")
Unfortunately, the e-mail doesn’t work. At least it didn’t for me. I attempted to point out an error on his front page, but I got a response from his daemon saying basically that his box was full. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575.md?page=3)