# A letter to Fred Phelps **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 9, 2002, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575 "2002-12-09T19:19:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![quarx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/50afbb/32.png) [@quarx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quarx)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/61 "2002-12-12T14:43:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > \*\*Incorrect, **H4e**. Fred Phelps is good at what **Triskadecamus** calls “Dueling Bibles”, wherein you pull various pieces of scripture out to defend your position **du jour**. What Fred is doing is finding passages that agree (at least seemingly so, to some) with his chosen position of hate. But if he knew the scriptures, he would not be preaching hate but love. That is, after all, what the Bible is about, no? God’s love? Or did I maybe read the abridged version? > > Sadly, it does make sense, and it’s a disgusting viewpoint and inherently more perverted than anything Fred’s picketed against. > > \*\* Oh, come on, now, iam, now this is _totally_ off base. Look, agree with His4 or disagree, love her or hate her, flame her or put the fires out, but **don’t** lump her or her ideology together with Fred Phelps, especially when she’s gone out of her way to repudiate him. His4 happening to agree with 0.1% of the _theory_ (not practice) behind this whackjob’s message is not nearly as disgusting as said whackjob picketing funerals of people who die of AIDS, and I’d say that His4 has done a pretty good job of saying that she finds that repugnant. I _will_ say that I disagree with pretty much everything else that His4 has posted … pretty strongly, in fact, but **you’re** out of line for saying what you said. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/62 "2002-12-12T15:14:42Z")
Two things: 1. Presumably, Phelps would agree that the sky is blue. If I also think that the sky is blue, that doesn’t make me a bigot. Although it wouldn’t be prudent to go around expressing my blue-skyism as “something about which I agree with Phelps”. My internal monologue is telling me this has been a pointless paragraph, so I’ll go on to the real reason for my posting in this thread, which is… 2. We recently had a thread about whether the idea of rape being used as punishment was too offensive to even be contemplated. I’m anti-torture, pro-human-rights, anti-rape, and all that. And I think that revenge is a poor and corrupt motive for anything, and it only begets more strife. However, I can’t bring myself to say that I’d be unhappy to live in a world where Fred Phelps gets ass-raped over and over until he makes a signed, videotaped testament to his profound and undying love of cock. Something like > [@](#): > > \*\*I, Fred Phelps, being of sound mind, do hereby of my own volition declare that I love the cock more than anything else that has ever existed since time began, the case being that I am now and always have been a gay homo obsessed with penis. Sweet, sweet cock. In fact, here’s a poem I wrote about it: > > \*My name is Fred > And with this desire I’m haunted: > To have sex with lots and lots of men > It’s all I’ve ever wanted > > To all studly men out there > I just want to say > Would you please fuck me in the ass? > 'Cause I sure am gay!\* > > What do you think? I know the meter’s a little off, but I think it gets the message across. I’m thinking of asking my longtime idol, Elton John, to write some music for it, which will be a big advantage when I start shopping for a producer. Broadway, here I come! > > Sincerely, > Fred Phelps > \*\* Yeah, I’m kind of a weird person. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/63 "2002-12-12T15:30:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by quarx \* > Oh, come on, now, iam, now this is _totally_ off base. Look, agree with His4 or disagree, love her or hate her, flame her or put the fires out, but **don’t** lump her or her ideology together with Fred Phelps, especially when she’s gone out of her way to repudiate him. > [@](#): > > Originally posted by His4ever > I don’t want to say they’re completely out of line in everything they say … Hmm, yeah, she really _has_ gone out of her way to repudiate him, and her beliefs don’t mesh at _all_ with his. Thanks so much for pointing that out to me. > [@](#): > > I _will_ say that I disagree with pretty much everything else that His4 has posted … pretty strongly, in fact, but **you’re** out of line for saying what you said. Given the factual errors you made in this post of yours, do you want to stand by that statement or reconsider it? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/64 "2002-12-12T15:43:38Z")
His4ever wrote: > [@](#): > > The guy knows the scriptures and I can’t deny that but these people’s attitudes just seem so hateful. Satan knows scripture too, my dear. He even quotes it to God. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/65 "2002-12-12T15:55:48Z")
Well, it’s a pretty _good_ hate, but _perfect?_ I dunno . . . ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/66 "2002-12-12T16:07:11Z")
**You are aware that you are agreeing with someone who pickets the funerals of gay people and celebrates where he believes they have gone, yes? And you are aware that hate is not a virtue?** **Please** don’t lump me in with people who picket gay funerals. I find that a bizarre practice and would never participate in such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/67 "2002-12-12T16:39:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\* > I stated above in another post my position on X. Everyone knows what it is so I don’t want to get into it on that subject, okay? \*\* Here’s what I’m talking about. You claim that you no longer wish to talk about your position on “X”. However, Phelps is _famous_ for his position on homosexuality. So when you come into this thread and discuss Phelps’ positions and say that you agree with him on certain things, it looks much like your talking about “X” again. Basically, you saw a thread about a “religious” person and his views on homosexuality and decided to get involved in the thread, all the while claiming that you don’t want to discuss “X”. And guess what. People are slamming you for it again. Frankly, I’m seeing a moth/flame diad here. And yes, when Fred Phelps dies, the total number of people roasting in hell will go up by 1. ---
**Author:** ![quarx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/50afbb/32.png) [@quarx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quarx)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/68 "2002-12-12T16:41:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > **Hmm, yeah, she really _has_ gone out of her way to repudiate him, and her beliefs don’t mesh at _all_ with his. Thanks so much for pointing that out to me.** Let’s try finishing the sentence, shall we? I don’t want to say they’re completely out of line in everything they say **but the manner in which they go about it leaves much to be desired.** (bolding mine) You know, iam, it’s one thing to see just what you want to see, but when you quote people out of context like this, it’s not a huge stretch to say that you’re being dishonest. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Given the factual errors you made in this post of yours, do you want to stand by that statement or reconsider it? \*\* Well, considering that you’re the one in error, no. also from His4 in this thread: I agree that there’s definitely something wrong with this Phelps guy. I don’t know 100% where Matthew Shepard is so I can’t say I agree. Even if it were true, it’s very hateful and poor taste to post it on his site. FTR, I’m atheist and proud of it, and I don’t agree with anything that His4 has posted on this board, but you don’t help anyone by misrepresenting someone’s views on this board (or anywhere else, for that matter.) She’s already said that she doesn’t like Phelps, for Chrissake. Telling her she’s worse than this nutjob either demonizes her unjustly or makes Phred out to be somewhat less of a monster than he really is. Once again, you’re not helping. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/69 "2002-12-12T16:45:21Z")
Come on, folks… this looks like we’re demanding that any discussion of the asshole Phelps incorporate an explicit Oath of Despisal against every aspect of his very existence. He’s so obviously a freak that requiring abjurations is kinda pointless. H4E has stated she agrees that homosexuality is sinful and the Scriptures are literally true, but disagrees with picketing gay people’s families or preaching a God based on Hate. She just _is not ready yet to take the step to flat out condemnation and counter-despisal_. It’s NOT an easy process to come around; it’s not like Cecil Adams will appear to her in a blinding vision and show her the Way. Some more information and dialogue and one day she may come around to explicitly calling him a hatemonger who stains the name of Christianity. And H4E, I hope God grants you the light to see that. Your being unimpressed by parts of Phelps’ response to your e-mail is a good sign. I hope you’ll come tosee that his hatemongering is so injurious and antithetical to the message of Salvation that even if his lips do cry out “Jesus is Lord, the Bible is his Word”, he should be rejected by Christians. jrd ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/70 "2002-12-12T18:44:06Z")
**His4ever** , I don’t believe God hates anyone. That’s not the point of the article (the title of the website is just for a parody of Fred’s). No, it’s that this guy is a freaking loon, so PLEASE, for your own sake, do NOT attempt to contact him. I no longer hate his family, even though they go along with it. The children have been raised with this madman, and from what I understand, they do show signs of cracking. His wife is a major victim. When he dies, I predict the family will fall apart. It will be interesting to watch-well, it would be if it weren’t so sad. [Here](http://cjonline.com/webindepth/phelps/) is another interesting site about Phelps. I don’t think he’s a closet case, either. He’s just using gays as a scapegoat-previously, it used to be his family. Think about what it was like to grow up under that monster. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/71 "2002-12-12T18:47:20Z")
BTW, if most of these articles are correct, the man is guilty of child abuse, fraud, tax evasion, assault and battery, threats, stalking, slander, libel, sexual harassment and thievery. ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/72 "2002-12-12T18:49:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*You have an inability to understand that the hate that this site talks about is God’s hate. God’s hate is a perfect hate. God’s hate is not a base, unreasonable, out of control human hate. > \*\* I’m not clear on this, **H4E** , but are these your words? You ignored me earlier, so I’ll ask again - how can you, as a christian, agree with any stance that begins “God hates…”? Do I understand correctly that you’re saying God hates some sinners? If so, how can you determine which He hates, and which are redeemable? ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/73 "2002-12-12T18:51:11Z")
**Beelzebubba** , I think that was a quote from the letter of response that **His4ever** received. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/74 "2002-12-12T18:51:49Z")
> [@](#): > > “I’m not here to win souls for Jesus or anything,” Phelps-Roper said. “I’m here to preach to these people so they can’t go to heaven. When God says, `Why didn't you believe in my truth?' they can't say, `Well I didn’t know what it was.’” From [here](http://www.mndaily.com/daily/1998/07/27/news/wbc/). What I find interesting is seeing how he wants his family all to be lawyers-so they can protect themselves. I’d like to know if there are any other indepth articles on the web about his family. Because it’s scary. DAMN scary! ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/75 "2002-12-12T19:02:54Z")
> [@](#): > > if God hates the human race so much, then why bother to send Jesus to earth so He could go through what He did in purchasing redemption for any who will come to Him and accept it? That doesn’t really sound much like hate to me. > > I do realize that there are different kinds of hate and God’s hate isn’t like what we would imagine hate to be, malicious and evil. > But I just can’t see Him hating everyone and then bothering to send Jesus to die for our sins. That wouldn’t make sense, if He hated us so much. Nothing special to add here; I just wanted to take the opportunity, while it lasts, to quote a post by **His4Ever** , in a thread about Christianity and homosexuality, that I agree with 100%. Thanks, dear. **That** is what I meant about witnessing **for** the Gospel here. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/76 "2002-12-12T19:15:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cuauhtemoc \* > \*\* > However, I can’t bring myself to say that I’d be unhappy to live in a world where Fred Phelps gets ass-raped over and over until he makes a signed, videotaped testament to his profound and undying love of cock. > Yeah, I’m kind of a weird person. \*\* Where would you find people who would WANT to have sex with him? ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/77 "2002-12-12T19:19:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > **Nothing special to add here; I just wanted to take the opportunity, while it lasts, to quote a post by His4Ever, in a thread about Christianity and homosexuality, that I agree with 100%.** I am really trying to understand, because this goes against everything I understood about christianity - Poly, help me out. You agree 100% with her post, and she states “…God’s hate…” I don’t understand where the concept of Gods hate comes from. Please elaborate - it has always been my understanding that God does not hate - nothing we do is hateful in the eyes of God. We can sin, certainly, but we are not ‘hated’ for it. Is that not so? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/78 "2002-12-12T19:32:02Z")
God hates certain **things** – never people. Jesus makes quite clear the sort of self-serving and judgmental behavior that He hates. According to evangelical theologians, He also hates sin – but what we’ve witnessed of His behavior in the one arena where He was actively demonstrating how He would act if He was a human being (the indicative is intentional, and not ungrammatical, BTW), he is inclined to _forgive_ and _have compassion on_ sinners, not express His hatred of their sins. That, He leaves to those who claim to speak in His name! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/79 "2002-12-12T20:43:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beelzebubba \* > \*\*I’m not clear on this, **H4E** , but are these your words? > > You ignored me earlier, so I’ll ask again - how can you, as a christian, agree with any stance that begins “God hates…”? Do I understand correctly that you’re saying God hates some sinners? If so, how can you determine which He hates, and which are redeemable? \*\* No, those are the words of the person who responded to my e mail. As to God hating, To be honest , Psalm 5:5 does say “Thou hatest all workers of iniquity.” I don’t want to say the Bible doesn’t say something that it does. But I don’t see this as being the same kind of thing Phelps is espousing. There’s too many other scriptures that talk about his love. I looked at one of the links about him, the letter from his son. I can’t believe that he said he’s not interested in leading people to Christ. If not, then he’s not doing what Jesus said to do and that’s to go and preach the gospel. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575/80 "2002-12-12T20:58:35Z")
**His4ever** , they ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THE GOSPEL. Fred Phelps just likes to have an excuse to harass people. He wouldn’t want anyone outside the church to join. He thinks he and his family are the ONLY ONES going to Heaven. You have to remember, hon, that he’s a very sick individual. And his family has grown up being controlled and manipulated by him. One of his sons today suffers Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and has chronic knee troubles from years of beatings. A family was horribly harassed after their son died of AIDS (yes, he was gay), and Phelps and co sent them hateful letters, fliers, threatened to picket the funeral, etc. He LIKES causing pain to others. He’s a sadist of the worst kind. Do NOT recontact him, or anything. Stay away. If you want to really do something, anytime you hear of him speaking up in your community, try and support the causes he protests against. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-fred-phelps/141575.md?page=5)