# A letter to the congress from the PNAC. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 30, 2005, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349 "2005-01-30T00:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/21 "2005-01-30T02:58:19Z")
Gee we had a draft during Vietnam no kidding? I should have been more specific but we haven’t had a draft since 1975 and we maintained a mucher larger military during the rest of the cold war than we have today without a draft. Irregardless this rant is fucking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/22 "2005-01-30T03:00:39Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Gee we had a draft during Vietnam no kidding? I should have been more specific but we haven’t had a draft since 1975 and we maintained a mucher larger military during the rest of the cold war than we have today without a draft. Irregardless this rant is fucking stupid. Irregardless?? Making up words now? Navy and Air Force enlistments are way up. Army and Marines are way down. Wonder why? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/23 "2005-01-30T03:10:49Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Gee we had a draft during Vietnam no kidding? I should have been more specific but we haven’t had a draft since 1975 and we maintained a mucher larger military during the rest of the cold war than we have today without a draft. Irregardless this rant is fucking stupid. We had a draft from WWII though 1975. Let’s say the Cold War started in 1946, and ended in 19… oh …89. Please state whether the larger part of the Cold War was with a draft, or without a draft. Let’s say the Vietnam War started in 19… oh …62, and ended in 1973. Please state whether the draft was in effect in other years when there was no Vietnam War. Please state whether my cite refers to the Korean War (1950-1953) or the Vietnam War. Please put lots of Vaseline around your neck before you remove your head from your ass; you wouldn’t want to damage your brain cell. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/24 "2005-01-30T03:14:46Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Irregardless?? > > Making up words now? > > Navy and Air Force enlistments are way up. > > Army and Marines are way down. > > Wonder why? Ouch. He’s got you there, **treis**. “Irregardless” is a double-negative, as both the prefix “ir-” and the suffix “-less” mean “without.” Ergo, there will be a draft. Sorry, dude, can’t fight logic like that. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/25 "2005-01-30T03:15:27Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Gee we had a draft during Vietnam no kidding? I should have been more specific but we haven’t had a draft since 1975 and we maintained a mucher larger military during the rest of the cold war than we have today without a draft. Irregardless this rant is fucking stupid. And we’ve had how many _major_ conflicts since then that have sucked up every military resource in the country with no end in sight? Answer: none. And let us not forget the desire to do the same to Iran. The Cold War was not a hot war. Peacetime attracts enlisments. Wartime discourages them, usually directly proportional to the length of the conflict. Current estimates are for a _minimum_ of five more years of Iraqi occupation. So, with enlistments down, demand up, and the global empire aspirations of the current regime, just how naive does a person have to be to think that young men and women are going to flock to the recruiters’ offices without being forced to do so? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/26 "2005-01-30T03:21:41Z")
:rolleyes: A thousand pardons for my corruption of the english Languange Anyway, aside from, but, despite, distinct from, leaving aside, nevertheless, nonetheless, notwithstanding, without considering we maintained much larger troop deployments after Vietnam without the draft. You are also incorrect about enlistments all branches met their '04 goals [Services meet recruiting goal](http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/2004recruitgoal.htm) > [@This Year's Model](#): > > We had a draft from WWII though 1975. Let’s say the Cold War started in 1946, and ended in 19… oh …89. Please state whether the larger part of the Cold War was with a draft, or without a draft. Let’s say the Vietnam War started in 19… oh …62, and ended in 1973. Please state whether the draft was in effect in other years when there was no Vietnam War. Please state whether my cite refers to the Korean War (1950-1953) or the Vietnam War. Please put lots of Vaseline around your neck before you remove your head from your ass; you wouldn’t want to damage your brain cell. Ok numbnuts let me spell it out exactly for the retarded ones amongst us. Between the years 1975-1991 (thats when the Soviet Union fell btw) we had a much larger active duty force than we do now without a draft. Are there any other irrelevant nits you would like to pick? Chefguy- They did in '04 why would they stop? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/27 "2005-01-30T03:30:12Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Which is more politically expedient. > > Running what troops you have into the ground or obtaining new ones? > > That IMHO is the arguement they will use. > > How do you vote for running your troops into the ground? This still doesn’t sell me on how the draft is _coming_. Doesn’t it still have to be approved by officials that would like to be re-elected? That’s an honest question there. My ignorance of government is profound. Still, if it has to go pass the congress critters, I think that their dedication to serving their constituents would prevent them from sending their (the constituents) kids off to war. I’m sorry, but for all this PNAC paranoia I still don’t see the draft getting off the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/28 "2005-01-30T03:30:33Z")
From your link… All of the U.S. Military services, with the exception of the Army and Air National Guard met their recruiting and retention goals for Fiscal Year 2004 (which ended on September 30), according to Department of Defense (DOD) recruiting documents. Surprisingly, however, while the Army and Air National Guard missed their FY 2004 recruiting goal, the Army, Naval, Marine Corps and Air Force Reserve said they’d met their recruiting goals for the year. All of them did? Do you have a problem with reading comprehension too? Or does your site have no idea what it’s talking about? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/29 "2005-01-30T03:31:22Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > Please state whether my cite refers to the Korean War (1950-1953) or the Vietnam War. Please put lots of Vaseline around your neck before you remove your head from your ass; you wouldn’t want to damage your brain cell. You do realize your cite refers to both of those wars along with many others? Perhaps you should keep the Vaseline. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/30 "2005-01-30T03:31:56Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > This still doesn’t sell me on how the draft is _coming_. Doesn’t it still have to be approved by officials that would like to be re-elected? That’s an honest question there. **My ignorance of government is profound. Still, if it has to go pass the congress critters, I think that their dedication to serving their constituents would prevent them from sending their (the constituents) kids off to war**. > > I’m sorry, but for all this PNAC paranoia I still don’t see the draft getting off the ground. Haven’t they already done that? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/31 "2005-01-30T03:33:35Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Haven’t they already done that? Only the volunteers. The draft is an entirely different and more negative species. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/32 "2005-01-30T03:38:22Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Anyway, aside from, but, despite, distinct from, leaving aside, nevertheless, nonetheless, notwithstanding, without considering we maintained much larger troop deployments after Vietnam without the draft. U.S. troops in Vietnam peaked at about 550,000 in 1968. Please state a larger deployment in any country since the draft. > [@](#): > > Between the years 1975-1991 (thats when the Soviet Union fell btw)… The Cold War effectively ended in 1989 with the fall of the Berlin Wall. Just ask Reagan. > [@](#): > > … we had a much larger active duty force than we do now without a draft. Well, no shit Sherlock! Without a Cold War, and without a Hot War, why pay for a bloated military? You keep a standing army around, you gotta find something to do with 'em. Bush didn’t bother to build up the standing army before he started a Hot War, and now they need more soldiers. Sabres are also being rattled at North Korea, Iran, and Syria, among others. Can you honestly say you do not believe a draft is near? Can you honestly say that if we invade other countries, we will not _need_ a draft? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/33 "2005-01-30T03:44:32Z")
> [@treis](#): > > You do realize your cite refers to both of those wars along with many others? Perhaps you should keep the Vaseline. You’re the one that got all bent out of shape about Vietnam when the part I quoted referred to Korea, both of which were during the Cold War that you were so adamant had no draft. I just assumed that you were ignorant of history. I suppose I need to apologize. I’m sorry that you are ignorant of history. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/34 "2005-01-30T03:45:31Z")
I don’t think so. The Pubbies have other options. First and foremost, declare victory and the get the Hell out of BaghDodge. Then, when the inevitable debacle ensues, blame the liberals for tying their hands. Its worked before, it will work again. It’s all our fault, Tinkerbelle died because we didn’t clap hard enough. And don’t forget, if you diss The Leader, you’re spitting on our Heroes. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/35 "2005-01-30T03:50:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I don’t think so. > > The Pubbies have other options. First and foremost, declare victory and the get the Hell out of BaghDodge. Then, when the inevitable debacle ensues, blame the liberals for tying their hands. Its worked before, it will work again. > > It’s all our fault, Tinkerbelle died because we didn’t clap hard enough. And don’t forget, if you diss The Leader, you’re spitting on our Heroes. I respectfully disagree. I don’t think Bush has the balls to run. He never makes any mistakes you know. We will stay till the bloody end if for nothing else than that Bush can say in 2008, that we need to elect his hand chosen candidate because we are at war. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/36 "2005-01-30T03:52:02Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > All of them did? > > Do you have a problem with reading comprehension too? > > Or does your site have no idea what it’s talking about? My cite is talking about active duty troops, which your cite talked about and what we are talking about isn’t it? > [@This Year's Model](#): > > U.S. troops in Vietnam peaked at about 550,000 in 1968. Please state a larger deployment in any country since the draft. Damnit I though I had idiot proofed my statements let me try agian. We maintained a larger military than we currently have now after the draft ended in 1975. Ergo we do not need the draft to increase our military. Is this that fucking hard of a concept to understand? > [@This Year's Model](#): > > Well, no shit Sherlock! Without a Cold War, and without a Hot War, why pay for a bloated military? You keep a standing army around, you gotta find something to do with 'em. Bush didn’t bother to build up the standing army before he started a Hot War, and now they need more soldiers Wait holy fuck they are thinking about increasing the army? I thought this thread was about increasing the number of ice cream truck drivers. > [@This Year's Model](#): > > Sabres are also being rattled at North Korea, Iran, and Syria, among others. Can you honestly say you do not believe a draft is near? Can you honestly say that if we invade other countries, we will not need a draft? No there is no draft near nor will there be any full scale invasions of any countries during the remainder of the Bush presidency. I am willing to put down any amount of money if you care to wager. Why we are bothering to argue about this I don’t know. The letter mentions nothing about a draft. Reeder did what he always does post a quote from a website add a logically twisted conclusion and a little one liner although I noticed he forgot the :rolleyes: in this one. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/37 "2005-01-30T03:54:21Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > You’re the one that got all bent out of shape about Vietnam when the part I quoted referred to Korea, both of which were during the Cold War that you were so adamant had no draft. I just assumed that you were ignorant of history. I suppose I need to apologize. I’m sorry that you are ignorant of history. Listen numbnuts I know that there was a draft during the cold war. I also know that we maintained a larger army than we currently have for over a decade without a fucking draft. Christ I would have more sucess yelling at the wall then getting my point across to you. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/38 "2005-01-30T04:00:25Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > I respectfully disagree. > > I don’t think Bush has the balls to run. He never makes any mistakes you know… Respectfully re-disagree. You’re assuming that GeeDubya has to _admit_ failure. Notice I say “declare victory”. I mean what I say. Yes, it would be one heck of a big fib. Can he sell it? Have you noticed the contingent of true believers hereabouts? Think they wouldn’t buy it? And later, when the trajectory of the shit intersects the locus of the fan, and GeeDubya tells him that their political enemies, those namby-pamby liberals, are to blame, think they won’t believe him? As the Joker said to the Thief:“You and I, we’ve been through that, and this is not our fate…” ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/39 "2005-01-30T04:00:52Z")
> [@treis](#): > > No there is no draft near nor will there be any full scale invasions of any countries during the remainder of the Bush presidency. I am willing to put down any amount of money if you care to wager. Do you want to bet on the draft or an invasion, or both? I’d be happy to put $50 on it if we can work out terms, and a definition of “full scale invasion” that works for both of us. Perhaps we should take that to email. I don’t think I’ve ever made a bet that had four years to run. Perhaps I should look into putting some money on the Orioles in the 2008 World Series. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-letter-to-the-congress-from-the-pnac/287349/40 "2005-01-30T04:02:22Z")
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