# a) Life is tough; we should be too. b) Life is unforgiving; we should be too. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 11, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-life-is-tough-we-should-be-too-b-life-is-unforgiving-we-should-be-too/489112 "2009-03-11T19:42:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-life-is-tough-we-should-be-too-b-life-is-unforgiving-we-should-be-too/489112/21 "2009-03-12T19:54:06Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > In this case life is the events we experience. > > No, you’re drawing a distinction nobody made. People have the choice to be forgiving. Life doesn’t make choices. Saying life is tough is like saying life isn’t fair - it’s an accurate representation of our experience but it’s attributing a quality to life that it’s not able to possess, so it doesn’t mean very much. I’m trying to address a distinction implied by the OP that can cause confusion in how people perceive the question. In order to believe that life is unforgiving you would have to draw a distinction between life and the forgiving people that are in it. Lets say that you steal from a store. The store owner catches you but lets you go. Is this the store owner being forgiving or is this life being forgiving? I’m not arguing for one or the other, I just want the OP to clarify his question. If life in the OP means everything in life that occurs without people making choices, then life can’t be unforgiving because being unforgiving is an act that requires a choice. If life in the OP includes the people who make choices then it is both forgiving and unforgiving because there are all kinds of forgiving and unforgiving people in it. Or the OP could meant that your own life is unforgiving, so then you should be too. To me this version make the most logical sense and the others can be easily dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-life-is-tough-we-should-be-too-b-life-is-unforgiving-we-should-be-too/489112/22 "2009-03-12T20:32:22Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Please defien “here.” Because if you mean “America,” your statement is awesomely stupid. Life is tough for plenty of people, though perhaps not a majority. > > If you mean “the world,” the statement is nonsensical. Life is horrid in many, many places of the world. I meant the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-life-is-tough-we-should-be-too-b-life-is-unforgiving-we-should-be-too/489112/23 "2009-03-12T20:53:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I meant the Dope. Seriously? Because this isn’t life. This is a fragment of life; a whisper, a shadow of life. It’s an escape from the stresses fo the real world. In the real world I have a wife with bipolar disorder who seems to be growing more unstable by the month, and there doesn’t seem to be anything I can do to relieve her suffering. In the real world there’s an economic crisis, starvation, genocide, war, rape, and murder. It may be true that many Dopers lives aren’t terribly tough, but to extrapolate our fairly privileged positions to the world in general is something less than wise. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-life-is-tough-we-should-be-too-b-life-is-unforgiving-we-should-be-too/489112/24 "2009-03-12T23:16:00Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > a) Life is tough; we should be too. b) Life is unforgiving; we should be too. > > Does the first statement imply the second? … I’d begin by questioning the _first_ statement: its looking so obvious at first glance is an artifact of one language’s semantics (namely that in English the properties ‘good at dealing out abuse’ and ‘good at enduring abuse’ happen to be expressible with the same word). What’s a truism only in some language(s) isn’t a truism at all. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-life-is-tough-we-should-be-too-b-life-is-unforgiving-we-should-be-too/489112/25 "2009-03-14T16:01:28Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Seriously? > > Because this isn’t life. I didn’t mean it that way - I meant that we, on the Dope, really don’t have it all that tough in our lives. > [@](#): > > This is a fragment of life; a whisper, a shadow of life. It’s an escape from the stresses fo the real world. I don’t treat the Dope as a stress reliever - in fact, my existence here is generally more stressful than my meatworld one, based on the number of arguments I get into and their effect on me.. > [@](#): > > In the real world I have a wife with bipolar disorder who seems to be growing more unstable by the month, and there doesn’t seem to be anything I can do to relieve her suffering. That’s harsh, but everyone has similar stories - I take medication just to keep me from curling up in the corner, for instance. Doesn’t make me think life is that tough. > [@](#): > > In the real world there’s an economic crisis, starvation, genocide, war, rape, and murder. Are these _all_ affecting you? If not, then you can’t really say they count, can you? Who on the dope is starving? A victim of genocide or war? I’ve been raped, it sucks, but it doesn’t make my life any tougher now. > [@](#): > > It may be true that many Dopers lives aren’t terribly tough, but to extrapolate our fairly privileged positions to the world in general is something less than wise. It would be as folly-full to take the _worst_ that could happen, and to extrapolate from that to “life is tough”, don’t you think? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-life-is-tough-we-should-be-too-b-life-is-unforgiving-we-should-be-too/489112.md?page=1)