# A list of stuff that pisses me off **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 15, 2002, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132 "2002-06-15T01:02:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/101 "2002-06-17T15:36:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Intellectual freedom? Apparently, you’ve never heard that most of our knowledge of ancient texts and writings came about because they were preserved by monks. Well, yes and no. Monks, particularly the religous communities of Ireland, did preserve the works of ancient Christian authors like St. Clement of Alexandria and Tertullian, but we owe the preservation of many ancient authors’ works, like Aristotle and Plato, to the Muslim scholars in Cordoba, Granada, Cairo, and Damascus who had kept the works alive in Arabic, and to the Byzantines who saved the works of Greek and Roman authors. > [@](#): > > Nor have you ever heard of the great Christian thinkers. Well, come on, who nowadays reads John Calvin, Thomas Aquinas, or St. Augustine? Heck, who reads the more modern works of Henri Nouwen or Thomas Merton? Even Christians don’t read such difficult works. They’d much rather swallow the pablum of Chuck Swindoll and James Dobson. People, in general, don’t read “Great Works.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b782af/32.png) [@The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Wrong_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/102 "2002-06-17T15:44:07Z")
In [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=120808) thread, **WV Woman** says > [@](#): > > I started this board out of bitterness. But it’s clear that in that sense, she means “thread” when she says “board,” so quotes like this: > [@](#): > > Anyhow, I’m through with this board. would leave me to believe that we haven’t heard the last from her yet. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/103 "2002-06-17T15:49:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Free thinking-what about Galileo and Sir Isaac Newton, just for starters? **Guinistasia** , you’re not helping your case. In 1632, Galileo was placed under perpetual house arrest by the Inquisition for the crime of publishing books that supported the Copernican theory that the earth revolved around the sun. Isaac Newton, after his second nervous breakdown in 1693, retired from research and wasted the last 30 years of his life in decoding the Revelation of St. John. ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/104 "2002-06-17T15:52:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\* > > Big fucking bullshit. > > Intellectual freedom? Apparently, you’ve never heard that most of our knowledge of ancient texts and writings came about because they were preserved by monks. > > Nor have you ever heard of the great Christian thinkers. > > :rolleyes: \*\* ahem…need I remind you that it took _four centuries_ for the Catholic Church to admit that, yes, the earth does revolve around the sun? :rolleyes: Oh, and how about that list of banned books? Boy, a whole lotta intellectual freedom goin’ on! ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/105 "2002-06-17T15:58:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*You should realize that not all Christians are intolerant zealots, and that not all intolerant zealots are Christian. \*\* Uh…since my grandfather was an Orthodox priest, I do realize that. My boyfriend’s parents are devout Pentecostals, and they’re not intolerant zealots, either. Still, even many Christians who are not intolerant zealots have a tendency to want to decide what’s best for my country as a whole, according to their beliefs, without taking into account that not everybody agrees with their beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/106 "2002-06-17T16:00:11Z")
Oh fuck. My point was, the people who came up with these theories were Christians, moron! Whatever. Okay. All Christians are brain-washed and all Judeo-Christian traditions are repressive. Happy? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/107 "2002-06-17T16:14:19Z")
> [@](#): > > ahem…need I remind you that it took four centuries for the Catholic Church to admit that, yes, the earth does revolve around the sun? Oh, and how about that list of banned books? Boy, a whole lotta intellectual freedom goin’ on! Again, you need to read a good intellectual history of thought in pre-Enlightenment Europe. Regarding the “Index Librorum Prohibitorum,” or Index of Prohibited Books, here’s some [info](http://www.hps.cam.ac.uk/starry/galbooks.html) > [@](#): > > The Council of Trent reaffirmed the need to censor books, established the Sacred Congregation of the Index of Prohibited Books to administer censorship, and set down rules for prohibiting books. Books could be placed on the Index also by the Sacred Congregation of the Roman Inquisition or of the Sacred Office, administrative units consisting of Cardinals charged with fighting against heresy. Two kinds of books were listed on the Index: books that were pernicious to Catholics and whose sale, possession or printing were prohibited; books that were prohibited under certain conditions, that is, they could be sold, printed, or read after the requisite corrections had been made. Copernicus’ De Revolutionibus was placed on the Index as the latter. Galileo’s Dialogue on the Two Chief World Systems was placed on the Index of Prohibited Books in 1633 as the former. (It was taken off the Index in 1824.) The Index, however, had little effect outside Italy, Spain Portugal, Poland or Bohemia, as it lacked an effective means of enforcement, and it was abolished in 1966. The Catholic Church recognized the the truth of the Copernican theory over the next century, and as I posted, the work by Galileo that instigated his punishment by the holy Office was removed from the Index in 1824. In fact, the Catholic Church has been very friendly to science, regarding as a method of revealing God’s handiwork in the universe. The Jesuits, in particular, have been very avid astronomers and helped convey knoweldge of Western science to the Qing rulers of China. You should read a biography of Mateo Ricci. ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/108 "2002-06-17T16:25:23Z")
I correct myself: three centuries before Galileo’s work was removed from the Index, not four. **Guin** –if Christian establishments suppress thought, does it matter if the thinkers are themselves Christian? Just a few examples from [http://www.godless.org/hasd/Banned.html](http://www.godless.org/hasd/Banned.html) : 1140 - Abelard - banned 1278 - Roger Bacon -banned 1542 - the Koran - banned 1559 - Dante - banned 1559 - Bocaccio - banned 1559 - Calvin - banned 1559 - Erasmus - banned 1581 - Dante, again - banned 1624 - Luther’s translation of the Bible - banned 1633 - Our pal Galileo - banned 1640 - Cervantes - banned 1644 - Milton - banned 1649 - Francis Bacon - banned 1665 - Descartes - banned 1676 - Montaigne - banned 1700 - Locke - banned 1720 - Defoe - banned Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera… ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/109 "2002-06-17T16:25:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh fuck. > > My point was, the people who came up with these theories were Christians, moron! Moron? For pointing out a flaw in your argument, an argument, BTW, I AM SUPPORTING? If you wish to demonstrate to **Squish** that Christianity and intellectual achievement are not incompatible, it would be smart not to use as your example the most notorious case of a scientist being silenced by the religious establishment! Jiminy! You would make a far stronger case by pointing to the work of the Jesuits in China, to Gregor Mendel, the Catholic monk who discovered the laws of genetic inheritance, to Lord Rutherfurd, a famous physicist and Christian, to Michael Faraday, the English physicist who discoveed electromagnetic induction and a believing Christian. There is no inherent incompatibility between religious faith and science, primarily because they answer two entirely separate sets of questions. Theology can give us the “why of creation” and science can give us the “how.” ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/110 "2002-06-17T16:31:26Z")
Disclaimer: I don’t agree with the OP. I’m not even necessarily defending **WV** , especially as it appears that there may be an issue regarding her membership. But, if someone expounds on a touchy issue in an inflammatory manner it should not give people the right to state “FUCK OFF” as a response. I heartily disagree with the baby murderer comment, but I do realize that some people see abortion as such…wrong, yes, but I can see where that opinion could come from. Given the sock issue, maybe this person IS a troll but how about addressing the issue and perhaps try to fight ignorance (insult away if you want). People DO have non-tolerant opinions and they may find their way to this board. Maybe we can make a diference with some of them… Not everyone can be as tolerant/accepting of different viewpoints as our SDMB folks. Let’s see if we can hammer open their shells and expose them to different ideas… I AM NOT ADVOCATING TOUCHY-FEELYNESS Like I said, call them a drooling imbecile, but maybe try to point out how/why their opinion is wrong… ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/111 "2002-06-17T16:35:48Z")
**Squish** , your list is mighty selective in that you are only citing books that were censored by the RCC. If you look at the Web site that you cited, you’ll discover that books are banned as often by civil authorities as by religious. The United States banned books, including _Ulysses_, _Lady Chatterley’s Lover_, and Sir Richard Burton’s translation of _The Thousand and One Nights_, not to mention the perpetual censorship of Mark Twain’s _The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn_ on purely secular grounds. Neither one of you is doing a good job of pleading your case. IMO, \*\*Guinstasia[/b[ is right, and **Squish** is dead wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/112 "2002-06-17T16:45:48Z")
No, I’m not only citing books banned by the RCC; some of the works I cited were banned by Protestant authorities. Might I venture to submit that books banned by the US were banned because of moral objections stemming from a Christian viewpoint (the telling phrase “banned in Boston” stemming from Boston’s notorious Puritanism)? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/113 "2002-06-17T16:54:51Z")
And what about the burning of books in Nazi Germany? What about the banning of Lewis Carroll by Nationalist China? What about the banning of authors under the Communist governments of the Soviet Union and China? Suppressing the voices of people you disagree with is a human trait, a trait not limited to one sect or political system. People have been burning books since the reign of Shih Chin Huang Di, the founder of the short-lived Qin dynasty and the first emperor of a unified China. He ordered all works burned that predated his reign, so that Chinese history would start with him. He failed, of course, as all such tyrants do. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/114 "2002-06-17T17:08:11Z")
1. Did the troll intend to drive people from the right-wing/ultra fundie view, cause her hate-filled posts sure did wonders in that regard. 2. Sock-puppeting is cause for banning. Did the mods rule on this yet? 3. No Opal, no Zette references, just my obsession with lists today. 4. Did anyone else enjoy the hi-jack more than the actual thread. 5. The OP in smiley terms. :eek: + 😕 + :wally = :smack: . ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/115 "2002-06-18T00:44:18Z")
Gobear, I’m just curious. Your whole argument is based on the fact that other groups have been repressive, not just Christians. Doesn’t this go back to the simplistic “two wrongs don’t make a right” theory? I just don’t see how more than one group doing something wrong makes it suddenly okay. There should be less finger pointing of course, but we shouldn’t close our eyes to it all together. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/116 "2002-06-18T00:56:38Z")
Not you, **gobear**. I meant **Squish**. I’m sorry to snap. I got my period today and I’ve got hideous cramps and I’m cranky. Me wants chocolate and Dr. Pepper. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/117 "2002-06-18T01:00:10Z")
I am dumbfounded how people who are pro-life could be anti Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood’s goal is to _prevent_unwanted pregnancies. That is a good thing, especially if you’re pro-life. PP offers free or reduced cost birth control to sexually active girls regardless of age or income. They give gynecological exams and STD screenings to women who would otherwise never set foot in an ob/gyn’s office because of the cost and proximity. And, if a young woman finds herself pregnant, they offer counseling services to discuss options. Yes, one of those options is abortion because, like it or not, it _is_ a legal alternative. But they don’t push it. I’m a pro-lifer and I think PP deserves our support, not our condemnation. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/118 "2002-06-18T01:02:40Z")
Anyhoo, the RCC did away with the Forbidden Books List, last time I heard. As for the Jesuits-I would have to commend you on that. I would love someday to attend a Jesuit university, for my Ph.D. And of course, my love of liberation theology as well. I’m sorry. I was wrong, and I was snarky about it to boot. I appologize. ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/119 "2002-06-18T01:26:13Z")
Well, since no one wants to believe that the various Christian Churches and Christian governments banned books, how about my other points: > [@](#): > > 1. I have yet to meet any Buddhists, Hindus, animists, pagans, Wiccans or Zoroastrians who condemn or attack me for not believing as they do, or who tell me all sorts of horrible things will happen to me because of that. > 2. I have yet to meet any Buddhists, Hindus, animists, pagans, Wiccans or Zoroastrians who have tried to bend my government into a mouthpiece for their religion. > 3. I have yet to meet any Buddhists, Hindus, animists, pagans, Wiccans or Zoroastrians who try to tell me how to live (converts to those religions being an exception, of course). > 4. No Buddhists, Hindus, animists, pagans, Wiccans or Zoroastrians have rung my doorbell or waited outside my community’s public schools in order to proselytize. > 5. No Buddhists, Hindus, animists, pagans, Wiccans or Zoroastrians, as far as I know, have disrupted funerals or put up webpages such as [www.godhatesfags.com](http://www.godhatesfags.com) > 6. No Buddhists, Hindus, animists, pagans, Wiccans or Zoroastrians are as imbued with hatred and anger as Christians–IMHO and YMMV. > 7. The Burning Times and The Crusades. I will concede #6. Now, on to the Sack of Constantinople, and the Albigensian Crusade! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132/120 "2002-06-18T01:29:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally posted by Squish > > Christianity is the only religion that’s just begs to have its face rubbed against the asphalt. Can you say, “curb check”? > > Gee whiz, and no moderators with the ‘hate speech’ routine? \*\* Good point…Gaudere? Same forum, same type of statement. Why not the same “official warning”? Or is the board supportive of tolerance for all creeds _except_ Christianity? Does the Chicago Reader now officially sanction bashing religion, as long as it’s the “right one”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-stuff-that-pisses-me-off/114132.md?page=7)