# A list of things my children will never have to experience/worry about **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 6, 2018, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154 "2018-08-06T03:29:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/21 "2018-08-06T18:15:19Z")
> [@G0sp3l](#): > > Are you sure that word means what you think it means? Unconceivable! ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/22 "2018-08-06T18:50:26Z")
Come on, people. Stay in your damned lanes! ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/23 "2018-08-06T19:19:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > You’re depriving them of the joys of that first perfect spring day, of falling in love, of being a parent, of discovering a cure for that disease or writing that novel or working to better the world. It can be a joyless, unhappy world but for every challenge there is an opportunity. This reminds me of a song I heard on the radio back in the '80s. Actually more like spoken words backed by music, it was a man’s voice explaining all the great things about life that you would miss out on if you killed yourself. Been looking for that ever since, can’t seem to track it down… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/24 "2018-08-06T19:38:35Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > I was speaking allegorically when I said that. Your argument doesn’t work if it’s only an allegory. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/25 "2018-08-06T19:54:24Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > You’re depriving them… Again, they cannot be deprived of anything. But people who have already been born, _can_ be deprived of all the things you mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/26 "2018-08-06T20:07:12Z")
Have you been reading David Benatar? > **[The Case for Not Being Born](https://www.newyorker.com/culture/persons-of-interest/the-case-for-not-being-born)** > > The anti-natalist philosopher David Benatar argues that it would be better if no one had children ever again. > [@naita](#): > > It is inherently dishonest to leave out all the things your children will never experience and enjoy: > > Ice cream > Bacon > A threesome (the good kind, not the devil kind) > Roller coasters > Learning to read > Birthday cakes > Moving away from their parent(s) > Seeing you called and not return the call > > There’s so much more to add, but I’ve proven my point. The logical argument for asymmetric utility is: > [@](#): > > the presence of pain is bad; > the presence of pleasure is good; > the absence of pain is good, even if that good is not enjoyed by anyone; > the absence of pleasure is not bad unless there is somebody for whom this absence is a deprivation > **[David Benatar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Benatar)** > > David Benatar (born 8 December 1966) is a South African philosopher, academic, and author. He is best known for his advocacy of antinatalism in his book Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming into Existence, in which he argues that coming into existence is serious harm, regardless of the feelings of the existing being once brought into existence, and that, as a consequence, it is always morally wrong to create more sentient beings. > Benatar is the son of Solomon Benatar, a global-health... ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/27 "2018-08-06T21:00:30Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > Again, they cannot be deprived of anything. But people who have already been born, _can_ be deprived of all the things you mentioned. You are being deprived of a lot, though. A child snuggling up to you as you read him books. The look of joy and pride as they do something wonderful. The feeling of absolute and unconditional love you get when you hold your baby for the first time. Grandchildren My kids have given me far more joy than sorrow. Sad you’ll never experience that. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/28 "2018-08-06T22:28:32Z")
Are you sure you’re ok with this decision? I’ve been of childbearing age for in excess of 25 years and have two kids to show for it. I can’t say I routinely spend any time thinking about my “unconceived” offspring. Yours seem to play on your mind. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/29 "2018-08-06T22:42:06Z")
I join the hordes in saying that your logic is incoherent. If you can take credit for sparing them from the bad, then you must equally take credit for depriving them of the good. Either neither can be considered, or both must be. Which is not to say that the good outweighs the bad - perhaps it doesn’t! (Especially if you know you have a genetic disease that will cause all your children to burst into unquenchable flame upon taking their first breath.) But in doing this calculation you must take into account both sides rather than just ignoring the factors that oppose your preselected conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/30 "2018-08-06T22:49:13Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I join the hordes in saying that your logic is incoherent. If you can take credit for sparing them from the bad, then you must equally take credit for depriving them of the good. Either neither can be considered, or both must be. > > Which is not to say that the good outweighs the bad - perhaps it doesn’t! (Especially if you know you have a genetic disease that will cause all your children to burst into unquenchable flame upon taking their first breath.) But in doing this calculation you must take into account both sides rather than just ignoring the factors that oppose your preselected conclusion. How about instead of saying I’ve “spared” them, we say I have refused to bring a person into a world where all the things I listed are a reality? ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/31 "2018-08-06T22:50:49Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Have you been reading David Benatar? > > [The Case for Not Being Born | The New Yorker](https://www.newyorker.com/culture/persons-of-interest/the-case-for-not-being-born) > > The logical argument for asymmetric utility is: > > [David Benatar - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Benatar) I know of Benatar, and his arguments. I don’t really agree with his methodology, but the conclusions he comes to are correct ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/32 "2018-08-06T23:06:25Z")
What you did is between God and you, and you can not deprive ‘your’ unborne from life - nor have you saved them from any of those things, as that is between them and God and the plan for their lives. When your ‘unborne’ realize that you never had any power over them to deny them of life they will move on in their eternal journey. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/33 "2018-08-06T23:16:54Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > How about instead of saying I’ve “spared” them, we say I have refused to bring a person into a world where all the things I listed are a reality? This is legitimate, presuming you mean “I have considered all the possible good outcomes, and all the possible negative outcomes, and weighted each by probability and severity prior to summing them up, and based on the outcome of this assessment concluded that life isn’t worth living.” Well, that or “Long waits at the DMV are the dealbreaker! No life that includes that could _ever_ be worth living!!!” The risk to advancing either argument, of course, is that the response might be “why are you still alive then?” Admittedly the statement that your DMV years are behind you would be a valid answer to that. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/34 "2018-08-06T23:27:36Z")
Every single one of your children is continually experiencing everything on that list. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/35 "2018-08-07T00:20:01Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > How about instead of saying I’ve “spared” them, we say I have refused to bring a person into a world where all the things I listed are a reality? And you have refused to bring a person into a world where all the good things are a reality. I’m not sure what your circumstances are, but 99% of my life is either happy or neutral. I would also wonder why you are here if your opinion is that life is literally not worth living. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/36 "2018-08-07T02:05:53Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > How about instead of saying I’ve “spared” them, we say I have refused to bring a person into a world where all the things I listed are a reality? Imagine a hypothetical waiting room for souls who may or may not get a chance to live in our world. You’re one of those souls. The world is described to you. Would you choose to exist? How confident are you that your hypothetical children would have made the same choice as you? It’s entirely possible that, if you had kids, they’d be as grateful as I am for the opportunity to pick wild blueberries and to snuggle and to smell a cooking steak and to swim and to read e.e. cummings and to love. The suffering of the world isn’t a small price to pay, but it’s a price worth paying, for existence. It’s entirely possible they wouldn’t. Choosing your own actions based on the actions of those who won’t ever exist is an absurdity. There are tons of reasons to have kids or not to have kids, but this nonsense is incoherent. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/37 "2018-08-07T02:27:14Z")
Besides, I’m guessing that the amount you would have to pay one of those hookers to have your kid would _really_ cut into your Detroit retirement fund. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/38 "2018-08-07T03:14:31Z")
I looked at the list more closely, and most of it neither I nor my kids ever experienced. Some of the things are actually pleasurable. Getting good grades was not a torment for any of us. Neither was finding a mate. Nor is paying taxes - I know what I get back from them. Finding jobs has not been all that difficult for us. Good times at work far outweigh bad times. Some people are said to be miserable if someone, somewhere is having fun. You seem to think life is not worth living if someone, somewhere, is unhappy. Tsk. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/39 "2018-08-07T03:38:00Z")
You should make another list. This list should be the things you miss by not having kids. Sure kids can be a pain sometimes. The love you feel for them and get from them is worth more than the suffering. Not everyone should have kids, but don’t choose not to based on that list. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/40 "2018-08-07T03:48:41Z")
> [@](#): > > …defecation… OP has obviously never experienced a good dump. Are you even human bro? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154.md?page=3)