# A list of things my children will never have to experience/worry about **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 6, 2018, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154 "2018-08-06T03:29:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/81 "2018-08-08T18:12:00Z")
this guy should meet up with machinaforce and spare us the teenage goth/emo angst …… ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/82 "2018-08-08T18:35:18Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I don’t mind the entertainment industry doing it - I do mind the news industry doing it. No wonder so many people think we’re in the middle of a crime wave. Every story is someone getting shot or robbed somewhere. And if they can’t fill the hour then you see horrendous stories which turn out to have happened 2,000 miles away. If there isn’t enough crime and horror in the Bay Area to fill an hour, how about a few minutes for an in-depth deep dive into an important issue. > Availability is the principle that people think things they have heard about have higher probabilities of occurring - like airplane crashes, or murders versus suicide. > But cover real news and people will switch to reality shows, I suppose. That’s also true. But seems to me the elevation of extreme torture in the public’s consciousness is more the entertainment industry than media. That’s not to say torture doesn’t exist, or isn’t even a topic first world citizens need to pay attention to as a matter of public policy in some cases\*, but citing it as a reason life isn’t worthwhile even on a long list seems to be obviously distorted in terms of probability in the discussion audience here. And as I said in my observation at least if somebody starts a discussion asking ‘is flying _really_ as safe as they say?’ lots of people will immediately respond ‘yes it is’ and dismiss fear of flying. That response isn’t as immediate, if it comes at all, for various other extremely unlikely calamities. So it isn’t quite a uniform elevation of the sense of risk. \*‘enhanced interrogation’ directly, although it isn’t necessary for something to fit the category ‘1 hr of it would make any other pleasures of a lifetime not worth it’ in order to argue it should be absolutely prohibited, different hurdles. Or there are indirect debates about say first world drug policy v drug gang torture mainly but not exclusively outside the first world. But that can become part of another peculiar tendency of the modern mind IMO, to string together long and debatable paths of causation and treat them as if they were far more immediate and direct moral relationships. Widespread moral confusion IOW. Which IMO is not entirely unrelated to people popping up and saying life isn’t worth living in general, for potential kids, with a blank slate. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/83 "2018-08-08T18:57:28Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Ah, but if you had never been born, maybe you would have agreed with him. Or something. It’s really quite confusing. > > It seems preposterous, but David Benatar is a real philosopher who makes a serious case for this position. Perhaps it’s not ultimately all that profound, but it’s always good to challenge your gut intuition about something, _especially_ when that gut intuition is so strong - obviously any evolved creature will have an extremely strong instinctive belief that existing is better than not existing. > > Not quite the same, but I think the brilliant ethical philosopher Peter Singer is much more interesting and challenging on examining the value of life. If you find yourself in opposition to his views on an issue (as many do, rather violently!), read his ideas and arguments and try to refute them - whether you do so successfully or not, it will make you a smarter and wiser person. I’ll have to give it a read. It’s funny, I remember watching one of the Star Trek movies. In the movie, there is an old man that has the ability to take people’s pain and suffering away. When the old man offers to take Kirk’s pain away, Kirk is basically like “Fuck you! I need my pain! (okay, I’m paraphrasing lol)” But anyway, that scene sort of rings true for me. Our pain is part of who we are. And it’s the pain that makes the good times so much more sweeter and appreciated. [Kirk’s I need my pain!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLzJAebfEIg) ---
**Author:** ![ThisSpaceForRent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisspaceforrent/32/345_2.png) [@ThisSpaceForRent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisSpaceForRent)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/84 "2018-08-08T19:26:06Z")
![](https://media.giphy.com/media/11mG8nIni5CYms/giphy.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/85 "2018-08-08T19:32:47Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Are you twelve? Apparently so. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/86 "2018-08-08T19:41:00Z")
The lines at the DMV are a thing of the past. You can do almost everything online in seconds, or if you _NEED_ to go there, you make an appointment and just waltz right on in. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/87 "2018-08-08T19:41:36Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > I’ll have to give it a read. > > It’s funny, I remember watching one of the Star Trek movies. In the movie, there is an old man that has the ability to take people’s pain and suffering away. When the old man offers to take Kirk’s pain away, Kirk is basically like “Fuck you! I need my pain! (okay, I’m paraphrasing lol)” > > But anyway, that scene sort of rings true for me. Our pain is part of who we are. And it’s the pain that makes the good times so much more sweeter and appreciated. > > [Kirk’s I need my pain!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLzJAebfEIg) The only people who think pain is good are sadists and masochists. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/88 "2018-08-08T19:43:46Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I’m going to share my story, by way of illustrating (I hope) that I understand where you’re coming from. > > My father was abusive, not sexually but physically. He would pick me up and throw me into walls. He would hit me. There was screaming. I never knew what triggered it, and I was the target child. I can still pop my arm out of my shoulder if I rotate it just the right way - leftover from being dangled and shaken enough times. > > I was very depressed throughout my childhood. I was very depressed throughout college. Like you, I swore that I would never, ever have children. What was the point? Life was an endless series of pain and hardship. The truth is that I had my reasons for thinking so, and they were valid ones. **Marcus** , from what you’ve said, your reasons are valid too. > > Life got better though. My life is better. It may seem impossible now. I’m sure it does, but it can happen. I eventually had children. You may want that someday. Be kind to yourself. _Sigh_, I really wished you had stuck to the commitment to never have children and adopted instead. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/89 "2018-08-08T20:25:05Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > You don’t feel like committing suicide? Great! I don’t think you should commit suicide either. And I _certainly_ don’t want you thinking I’m pressuring you to. > > However it’s worth noting that the fact you haven’t committed suicide annihilates your argument. If life was really _that bad_, you’d find a way to get out of it. But you don’t! Which proves it’s not, at least not for you, which means there’s hope for others! Yay! I _am_ trying to find a way out. The Buddha’s views on suicide were complex, but he realized that you can’t just kill yourself out of here. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/90 "2018-08-08T20:33:19Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > I _am_ trying to find a way out. The Buddha’s views on suicide were complex, but he realized that you can’t just kill yourself out of here. :dubious: That’s not what you said a bit ago. What’s the Buddha’s view the value of life, out of mild vague curiosity? ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/91 "2018-08-08T21:45:55Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > :dubious: That’s not what you said a bit ago. > > What’s the Buddha’s view the value of life, out of mild vague curiosity? The Buddha viewed worldly existence in much the same way as I do- deeply vain and filled with suffering. The entire Buddhist doctrine is about forever freeing yourself from the birth-death cycle. Buddhism, like Christianity ( in their pure forms, not their heavily degraded and bastardized forms) are strongly world-denying doctrines. Here’s an excerpt from a book I was reading entitled '\* The Meditation Techniques of the Buddhist and Taoist Matters\* > [@](#): > > Birth is evil, decay is evil, sickness is evil, death is evil. To be joined to what one does not like is to suffer. To be separated from what one likes is to suffer. Not to have what one desires is to suffer. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/92 "2018-08-08T22:10:08Z")
There’s your problem! You are reading the wrong books. Try “Insights into the Mind of a Labrador Puppy” by Mr Peanut Butter. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/93 "2018-08-08T22:21:04Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > The Buddha viewed worldly existence in much the same way as I do- deeply vain and filled with suffering. The entire Buddhist doctrine is about forever freeing yourself from the birth-death cycle. Buddhism, like Christianity ( in their pure forms, not their heavily degraded and bastardized forms) are strongly world-denying doctrines. > > Here’s an excerpt from a book I was reading entitled '\* The Meditation Techniques of the Buddhist and Taoist Matters\* Well, that doesn’t sound uplifting at _all_. Also, is it any wonder I think religions are bad for your psychological health? Positions like this are predicated on and dependent on the idea that life is evil as compared to something - ‘heaven’ or ‘a state freed from the birth-death cycle’ or other such fantastic fiction. Compared to fictional eternal mindless bliss _of course_ the world sucks - nothing can compare to fantasy. It’s an attempt to get people to devalue and throw away what they’ve got in favor of something they’ve been promised but won’t get. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2018, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/94 "2018-08-09T02:25:58Z")
I was thinking of including serious abuse, by parents usually, as a child as one of the ways a relatively small, but non-negligible, % of people in rich countries end up with lives not worth living, or arguably so, as opposed to negligible probabilities like slowly dying of massive accidental burns or being horrifically (literally, physically) tortured. But, the original discussion is about if people should have kids. And one of the basic flaws of the OP’s reasoning is the implication that this answer would be the same for everyone. There are absolutely people who should not have kids, those who are dealing with personal problems severe enough (or they are just evil, any way you want to construct it) they are likely to be serious abusers of their kids. Below that on the hierarchy would be more mundane things like does the person have the support of a stable partner, family, other social support network? Have they been able to get the education, skills, and work habits to support children (forget whose ‘fault’ it is if they haven’t)? And so on. It’s not calling for any collective action to take that judgement call out of the hands of individuals for themselves (unless/until they have kids and do abuse or neglect them, then it’s everyone’s business). It’s pointing out that a big category of events which actually dooms rich country people to unhappy lives, really bad parents, is the responsibility of potential parents to evaluate in themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2018, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/95 "2018-08-09T02:26:02Z")
[quote=“raventhief, post:59, topic:819154”] Is this it? > **[Bobby Gaylor - Suicide Lyrics | SongMeanings](https://songmeanings.com/songs/view/42267/)** [/QUOTE] Yeah, that’s it! If it was released in Y2K, then I must have remembered the year I heard it wrong. :smack: Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![MattDHat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@MattDHat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MattDHat)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154/96 "2018-08-09T18:24:10Z")
Hmmm…a few thoughts. Death is the mother of Beauty; hence from her, alone, shall come fulfillment to our dreams and our desires. - Wallace Stevens To achieve enlightenment in Buddhism, one must first recognize that life is suffering. Get OK with that, and life becomes a lot more entertaining. When I’m done, I’ll have spent at least a million dollars on bringing my three children all the way up to independence. You got to spend that on yourself. My choice, but see below- Finally, when you get old and gray and are wasting away in a nursing home/assisted living situation, MY kids will a) have to pay for your care and b) wipe your scrawny old arse. From that perspective, it could be argued I’ve done you a solid. I’m not claiming it. Ultimately, the choice to conceive or not is personal. I’m scared witless about the world my kids will face, no doubt. But I categorically refuse to pack my bags for the implied guilt trip that I’ve brought them into a living hell. I’d say the we’ve both done a solid- for ourselves. We chose different lives that reflect our personal values and needs. You have more money, and less to worry about. I have less money, more worry, but more love. May we both be equally satisfied and happy with the choices we have made. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-list-of-things-my-children-will-never-have-to-experience-worry-about/819154.md?page=4)