Not at all, ThunderBug. I think 17 is a perfect compliment to 14, and I agree with most of what you said.
Poly, kudos to you for launching a great thread. I’m still reeling from Xeno. It was a profound interpretation, particular from his frame of reference.
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…particular[ly] from his frame of reference…
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Remember, my friend; that’s a moving reference frame. I have some key influences constantly reinforming my point of view, not least of all my wife, a quietly assured and absolutely rock steady Christian. (And also a few cyberfriends on this here corner of the Web).
I’m not a convert to theism. But I endeavour to grok. (Christ, Buddha, Gandhi… these powerful messages have truth at the core of them. Ignoring that truth is rather pointless.) I think faith is a choice made from a position of uncertainty. I choose to have faith in the impermanence of all things, in the shared reality of the universe, and in the limits of my understanding. In the context of my faith in those things, Christ’s message is just as relevant a commandment as it is to one who has faith in the eternal life of the spirit.
I have no doubt that the Apostles were pretty confused by the Lord’s lack of concern for the probable consequences of the overt rebellion against the current secular powers. To most of them it was probably not yet clear that worldly matters were secondary even in the matter of seeking God.
I know I would have been very frightened, in the garden, with the stark reality of Hebrew, and Roman civil authority grinding its way to find me, and Him.
“Lord,” I would have said, “You don‘t have to worry, you just have to call upon your father, God, and whatever trouble you have will be overcome. What about me, Lord? You say even Peter will fail you, and fail himself. I am not even close to being as faithful as Peter! What happens to me?”
And here He is telling them, and telling me, “I did not show you the way, I am the way. I have not told you how to live to please God, I live to please God, and if you do the same, you cannot fail to find God.”
Standing around waiting for the mob that wants His death, and He must still be what I need, and explain to me that he isn’t going to be “saved in the nick of time” from death, but that He, and I are already saved, and death has no power over us, because OUR Father awaits us beyond death. We don’t need to go to Him, because we are with Him now, and He is with us, even when He dies.
Jesus tells us that there is no important difference between following Him, and following God, because Jesus is following God, and Is the life he lives, before, and after death.
It’s one of those “to simple to understand” things, you know. Don’t worry about the details, do what you know is good, and God will know. You don’t have to understand theology to be a decent soul, and God loves you for who you are, not what you know.
I wish I could have been there. I suppose I should try being here, as if I was there. Me
Ditto. Wonderful stuff, Jerevan – here and on other threads. Thanks for posting it, and welcome back!
The Gospel in a nutshell. Thanks, Tris. Can I quote this sometime when we get into theological contortions, here or on another board I have in mind…?
Xeno, I too am a Seeker after Truth. I’ve found in Jesus and the God whom He made manifest something to which to pin my heart and mind, but I’m not so purblind as to fail to see truth wherever it lurks, and your and Lux’s comments always provide me with different insights and perspectives I would otherwise not have seen. Greetings to Mrs. Xeno, and my sincere hopes that she will join our discussions as she finds time and motivation to do so.
::: still giggling from Lux Fiat’s frustrated Jesus:
Priceless!!
Being quoted by you falls in the category of receiving high praise, Poly, not doing favors.
Feel free.
“Although water vapor is the most important greenhouse gas, it is not even agreed whether and increas in its concentration due to global warming will cause more warming, or cooling.” ~ Phil Szuromi, Science Magazine ~
Gorshk. Thanks. 
Well, gosh, thanks. It’s nice to be back, and to be appreciated. I always find it a treat to discuss/debate religious issues with people of whatever religious bent (or non-bent) who, like yourself, aren’t personally threatened by the discussion.
Philip & Thomas (in unison): No way!
Jesus: Way!
As opposed to ten days later:
Thomas: No way am I gonna believe a story like that!
Jesus (appearing): Putcha fingers here, Thomas.
Thomas: Dude!!
Peter: Sweet!!
Judas (to Peter): Don’t be such a tool!
[monty python voice]
Stop that! It’s far too silly
[/monty python voice]
Wow.
I have just dicovered “The Straight Dope” and this is my 1st post, as I am more of a listener.
Just a general gushing, amazing exercise, amazing responses, amazing average IQ and intellect.
Wow, I wish one could met this quality of thinkers on the street. But in this world most people don’t bother with strenous mental exercise.
Non-Intellectual #1:“Duh, do you call the thing that changes chanels a converter or remote?”
Non-Intellectual #2: “Dunno, Great debate topic, though!”
#1:" Yup, that’s for sure. Deep, really deep."
Very clever and funny ending comments.
Thanks for the enlightening,
Gushing Admirer
Welcome to Straight Dope Great Debates, Blueberry. Please feel free to contribute, and thank you for your compliments to the board. It is indeed, by and large, an exceptional place with exceptional people.