# A little hazy on New York geography **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 10, 2010, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378 "2010-01-10T07:41:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/21 "2010-01-11T06:16:35Z")
I’ll admit I edited the conversation down to its essential points. The woman began by asking where we were and we explained we are “between Buffalo and Rochester”. We then explained we are closer to Rochester and, when she told us she was coming from NYC, that Rochester was enroute (which Buffalo is not). This is when she began asking about subway routes. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/22 "2010-01-11T14:51:22Z")
When I was going to school in Rochester, my advisor used to get calls from people asking him to come down to NYC for lunch. Lots of folks in the City have that “New Yorker Cartoon” view of the rest of the country, sand don’t realize how big “upstate” New York is. Having made the trip many times by auto, train, bus, and plane, I am also flabbergasted by your statement that “you don’t want to flu”. Even counting the time spent going to and from the airport, it’s a helluva lot faster to fly. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/23 "2010-01-11T15:26:28Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > To many NYC’ers, Western NY State is sort of a fantasy land. Even I, a pretty well educated type person born and raised in NY and who has lived here most of my life, it takes a fair amount of concentration not to assume that **everything “upstate” (past Westchester County)** is not some kind of spur off of the NY Thruway going north to Montreal. Regarding the bolded part, real NYC’ers call that part “Canada”. (I used to mercilessly kid a friend from Buffalo about being lucky to get into a military exchange program with the US and allowed to enter the USAF. And when the Giants beat the Bills, a game we watched together, I bragged about how we kept the trophy in the US.) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/24 "2010-01-11T15:27:40Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > A little off topic, but last night we were watching As Good as It Gets, and I remembered that the first time I watched it, I thought it was unrealistic that the Helen Hunt character would ride a bus all the way from Brooklyn just to work as a waitress in Manhattan. > > Then I went to NY and it seems that Brooklyn really isn’t that far. Plus, I talked to a guy who worked in a gift shop in Canal Street and he told me he lived in Staten Island, which seems even further away. It’s pretty common to commute in from the Outer Boroughs to Manhattan for all sorts of jobs. What I find funny is how people who live in Manhattan create these sort of mental borders which they don’t like to go past. For example, I used to live in the East Village near Union Square. For the most part, I tended to stay between E Houston and E 14th and between Broadway and Avenue B, plus the blocks immediately surrounding Union Square. Even though it was only a 5 minute cab ride or about a 15 minute walk, going to nearby neighborhoods like Soho, Murray Hill or the West Village constituted “effort”. And forget going to the Upper West Side. This phenomenon was comically portrayed in Seinfield when Kramer frantically called Jerry from the “nexus of the universe” on E 1st Street and 1st Avenue. (There is actually a lounge there called Nexus). ---
**Author:** ![Textual\_Intercourse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Textual\_Intercourse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Textual_Intercourse)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/25 "2010-01-11T16:26:36Z")
Over the years, navigating the city via public trans has skewed my idea of distance. On a whim I just checked out how many miles it was from my home in Brooklyn to my job in Long Island City. 12 miles. Mapquest says that’s a 29 minute car drive (best time I ever made in a car was 45 minutes and that was uncanny). By train it takes about 1 hour and 12 minutes. Rewind about 10 years to when I lived in Sullivan County (the sticks). The nearest town was 12 miles away and it took me about 17 minutes to get there by car doing roughly 55 mph the entire way. I had made the walk or rode a bicycle this distance on a number of occasions without much of a problem. Now, the thought of walking or riding a bike back to Brooklyn wouldn’t even occur to me. It’s another borough for chrissakes! Same distance though. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/26 "2010-01-11T19:25:33Z")
What used to always make me laugh was the weather reports from NYC television stations. They would give you tomorrow’s weather prediction for Manhattan. Then, with a straight face, they would give you the predictions for Brooklyn and Queens and the Bronx and Staten Island. Weatherman, please. New York City is about thirty miles across: it does not have five different weather zones. Times Square and Tottenville and City Island and Rosedale are all going to get the same weather tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![miamouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@miamouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miamouse)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/27 "2010-01-11T20:36:49Z")
> [@TurboNuke](#): > > And street smart means they lie a lot. We love you too. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/28 "2010-01-11T20:59:48Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > It’s pretty common to commute in from the Outer Boroughs to Manhattan for all sorts of jobs. And sometimes by bus. My mother took an express bus from Fresh Meadows to 34th street - much easier than a bus and subway combo, and you got a seat. I commuted in for summer jobs by bus and subway. I didn’t know anyone from Queens who was limited in what part of Manhattan they visited (aside from what were seen as dangerous parts) but I can Manhattan residents doing this. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/29 "2010-01-11T21:07:53Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Even though it was only a 5 minute cab ride or about a 15 minute walk, going to nearby neighborhoods like Soho, Murray Hill or the West Village constituted “effort”. And forget going to the Upper West Side. We San Franciscans are like that too. Oakland’s about 10 minutes away by subway but if someone invites us there, they might as well have invited us to Rochester. And god help them if they’re not within three blocks of BART; they’d never be seen again. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/30 "2010-01-11T21:24:14Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > And sometimes by bus. My mother took an express bus from Fresh Meadows to 34th street - much easier than a bus and subway combo, and you got a seat. I commuted in for summer jobs by bus and subway. A friend of mine who lives in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn takes the bus into the city all the time. It takes a fraction of the time of the R subway. > [@Voyager](#): > > I didn’t know anyone from Queens who was limited in what part of Manhattan they visited (aside from what were seen as dangerous parts) but I can Manhattan residents doing this. Each of the outer boroughs as well as the de facto “sixth borough” of Hoboken/JC/Weehawken/Union City NJ each has its own local culture and activities. But people who live there often work in Manhattan and travel in regularly for recreationsal purposes. It’s very difficult to drag people in the other direction. The biggest reason it probably because it’s a lot tougher to get transportation back to Manhattan late at night. If you are already coming into the city anyway, you have a much wider area you can go to vs just wanting to walk outside and go to the nearest local bar. But I do notice that certain bars attract the so-called “Bridge & Tunnel” crowd more than others. They tend to be in Midtown or by the PATH stations on 6th Ave. > [@TurboNuke](#): > > The stereotype is that NYers are tough and street smart. From my experience, tough=unable to survive anywhere that doesn’t have public transportation and seeing two trees next to each other means an attack from wild animals is imminent. And street smart means they lie a lot. Actually I thought it means I’m about to be ass-raped by hillbillies. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/31 "2010-01-11T21:45:14Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Buffalo is probably less than 2 hours off the thruway- people from NYC tend to forget (or not know) that the Thruway makes a left turn at Albany and is I-90 while I-87 becomes the Northway. When people at my job are sent to training, if it involves taking either the Thruway or 1-87 past the Albany exits, they invariably choose the wrong one. D’oh! I did mentally equate The Thruway with I-87. I knew it was called “The Northway” north of Albany, but thought that was just a local name for the road. So yeah, case in point – to this NYC’er, I have to really concentrate to remember that stuff west of I-87 constitute a lot of (even most of) the area of NY State. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/32 "2010-01-11T21:47:15Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Actually I thought it means I’m about to be ass-raped by hillbillies. I grew up in Westchester. We never went up to Duchess just because of all the ass-raping hillbillies. I’ve been in the city since I went to college starting in 96, and honest to goodness, I haven’t been ass-raped once. But of course, I am pretty street smart, so I might just be lying. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/33 "2010-01-11T21:56:26Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > I grew up in Westchester. We never went up to Duchess just because of all the ass-raping hillbillies. I’ve been in the city since I went to college starting in 96, and honest to goodness, I haven’t been ass-raped once. > > But of course, I am pretty street smart, so I might just be lying. Dutchess County: come for the ass-raping hillbillies, stay for the British-style driving! ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/34 "2010-01-11T22:25:27Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > There’s this huge space going WEST in NY State that nobody ever talks about. And how about the vast expanse to the north, referred to by residents therein as the “North Country”. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/35 "2010-01-11T22:30:14Z")
> [@Textual\_Intercourse](#): > > Over the years, navigating the city via public trans has skewed my idea of distance. On a whim I just checked out how many miles it was from my home in Brooklyn to my job in Long Island City. 12 miles. Mapquest says that’s a 29 minute car drive (best time I ever made in a car was 45 minutes and that was uncanny). By train it takes about 1 hour and 12 minutes. I too found that I measured distance by time. “How far away is it” was more accurately answered in terms of how long it took to get there, not the literal distance traveled. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/36 "2010-01-11T22:52:01Z")
**A New York Guide to geography** “The City”, is, of course, the city. Which curiously doesn’t include the Bronx, Staten Island, Brooklyn, or Queens. Those are properly identified by name (even though they are technically part of New York City). “The City” is actually only Manhattan, the rest are called “boro” (plural “boros”) even though they are actually “boroughs”. “The Island”. As far as most New Yorkers know, there is only one island. And it isn’t Staten Island. It is “the island”, and contains towns with unpronouncable names ending in -ogue. Queens and Brooklyn are not part of the island, although it is impossible to tell where one stops and the other begins. “Westchester”. The borderland to the north. Alternately indistinguishable from the Bronx, and completely unlike the Bronx. “Putnam County”. The farthest reaches of the realm. The neighboring kingdom, “Connecticut”, can be reached by traveling through Putnam County. Or Westchester. Most New Yorkers aren’t sure which. “Jersey”. That wanna-be city/state where the Soprano’s live. They have pine trees and high auto insurance rates. “Upstate”. The mythical, magical land beyond Putnam County. All of the rest of New York State, everything that isn’t the city, the boroughs, the island, Westchester, or Putnam, exists in “upstate”. Albany? Upstate. Buffalo? Upstate. Grand Island? No, silly… everyone knows there’s only one island. And it isn’t Staten Island. This “grand” island of which you speak must exists only in the immaginary land known as… upstate. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/37 "2010-01-11T22:56:28Z")
> [@](#): > > There’s this huge space going WEST in NY State that nobody ever talks about. Lots of people talk about it. It’s only people in NYC who think that “upstate” is Westchester County. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/38 "2010-01-12T00:36:28Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Yes, Far Rockaway (in Queens) is accessible by subway. It’s not near Manhattan, though, but about as far away as you can get and still be in the city (not counting Staten Island). I’ve never actually done, but I understand that the full run of the A train from northern Manhattan to Far Rockaway is two hours. It is eminently feasible to commute from Brooklyn to Manhattan, especially lower Manhattan. My son and his wife and my daughter all do it and my son-in-law commutes to Hoboken, NJ (by subway and PATH train). ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/39 "2010-01-12T03:59:03Z")
Flatbush to NoHo in 27 minutes for me. Yay B-Train. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378/40 "2010-01-12T04:46:08Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I’ve never actually done, but I understand that the full run of the A train from northern Manhattan to Far Rockaway is two hours. I used to take the train from the north Bronx to go birding at Jamaica Bay, and once or twice to the Rockaways. It involved a couple of transfers between lines, and often took a couple of hours (not to mention a having to pay an additional fare). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-hazy-on-new-york-geography/524378.md?page=3)