# A Little Late, but Fuck You, Utah **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 11, 2008, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-late-but-fuck-you-utah/433081 "2008-01-11T03:50:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-late-but-fuck-you-utah/433081/21 "2008-01-13T14:39:23Z")
[QUOTE=Zabali\_Clawbane] Any word on where to send letters? [/QUOTE] I’ve got two irons in the fire for that information: I’ve tried to contact, via the AP, the author of the linked article. I’ve also sent a request for information to the UMWA, the union that not only covers many mine workers in the US, but which has a legal responsibility, per some Federal legislation, to act in the interests of mine safety for all miners in the US. I doubt I’ll hear anything before Monday. Once I do hear something I’ll start getting the word out. As for national and international media attention - meh. At the risk of sounding terribly cynical, we’re not talking about a missing white girl/woman, after all - so the news value doesn’t seem to be that great. And the dateline on the linked story was 12/24/2007 - plenty of time for so-called natural news pressures to have picked up the story and kept some attention going with it. I don’t scorn the idea of using the media to shame the State of Utah into a more flexible policy, just that it doesn’t seem to be happening on its own. And, while I mentioned the UMWA - they’ve got some national [issues](http://www.umwa.org/index.php?action=show_item&type=news&item_id=220&id=323) with the MSHA which may be distracting them from this issue. Likewise, while I don’t think that **TokyoPlayer** ’s suggest of contacting the governor is a bad one, I think that if there is a letter-writing campaign already in progress additional letters will have more weight if they are part of a larger effort. ISTR having heard here on the Dope that when contacting elected officials email is at the lowest rung for getting action, then phone calls, then physical letters and finally personal visits to appropriate offices. Similarly, a single contact is often ignored as being insufficiently important for enough voters for action to be an issue. And finally, contact from people who aren’t being represented by that official are often on the bottom of the heap no matter how things work out. So, we on the Dope (And any of your friends, family, cow-orkers, and complete strangers you might be able to brow beat into writing) are to have any effect it needs to be coordinated. Give me 48 hours to see whether I can find out about any existing letter writing campaigns, and if that fails, then we’ll work something out on our own. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-late-but-fuck-you-utah/433081/22 "2008-01-14T09:33:22Z")
Some celebrity attention might help. The Sundance Film festival is coming up, isn’t it? A barage of letters to them asking for just a little publicity might help. Redford is, I think, on the Board of Directors of the Natural Resources Defense Counsel and might be inclined to speak out against the mining industry anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-late-but-fuck-you-utah/433081/23 "2008-01-14T13:41:50Z")
[QUOTE=Una Persson] Of course it’s a shitty thing. I’ll bet it’s a standard “person must be missing for X years without a body recovered to be declared dead” thing in Utah law. I don’t know, I’m just guessing. [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > 75-1-107. Evidence of death or status. > (1) In addition to the rules of evidence in courts of general jurisdiction, the following rules relating to a determination of death and status apply: > (a) Death occurs when an individual is determined to be dead as provided in Title 26, Chapter 34, Uniform Determination of Death Act. > (b) A certified or authenticated copy of a death certificate purporting to be issued by an official or agency of the place where the death purportedly occurred is prima facie evidence of the fact, place, date, and time of death and the identity of the decedent. > (c) A certified or authenticated copy of any record or report of a governmental agency, domestic or foreign, that an individual is missing, detained, dead, or alive is prima facie evidence of the status and of the dates, circumstances, and places disclosed by the record or report. > \*\* (d) In the absence of prima facie evidence of death under Subsection (1)(b) or (c), the fact of death may be established by clear and convincing evidence, including circumstantial evidence.\*\* > \*\* (e) An individual whose death is not established under Subsection (1)(a), (b), (c) or (d) who is absent for a continuous period of five years, during which the individual has not been heard from, and whose absence is not satisfactorily explained after diligent search or inquiry, is presumed to be dead. The individual’s death is presumed to have occurred at the end of the period unless there is sufficient evidence for determining that death occurred earlier.\*\* (f) In the absence of evidence disputing the time of death stated on a document described in Subsection (1)(b) or (c), a document described in Subsection (1)(b) or (c) that states a time of death 120 hours or more after the time of death of another individual, however the time of death of the other individual is determined, establishes by clear and convincing evidence that the individual survived the other individual by 120 hours. > (2) The right and duty to control the disposition of a deceased person shall be governed by Sections 58-9-601 through 58-9-604. [http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE75/htm/75\_01008.htm](http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE75/htm/75_01008.htm) (Emphasis added.) So they could simply conclude that the individuals are dead based on circumstantial evidence. Or they can make the families wait five years, or at least start legal proceedings to establish an earlier death. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-late-but-fuck-you-utah/433081/24 "2008-01-14T17:17:45Z")
One throw-away line about not declaring them dead makes me wonder if anybody has asked that they be declared dead. It might require that the family file some paperwork and make the request. As **Brian Elkers** noted, salary is possibly still being paid (along with medical coverage for the family). Depending on the situation, the on-going salary and medical might be worth MORE than a lump sum life insurance payout plus Social Security benefits. For an interesting read, take a look at the Vietnam MIA situation. There were survivors getting full salary and benefits into the 1990s at least. This stream of payments was worth far more than the military death benefit. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-late-but-fuck-you-utah/433081/25 "2008-01-16T08:06:23Z")
Okay, I’ve had that 48 hours that I’d asked for and so far, I’ve heard nothing. I’ve beat around for a few other places, and still can neither confirm nor deny what’s going on. The website [crandallcanyonvoices](http://www.crandallcanyonvoices.com/) seems to be focusing more on keeping mining going in their community than the surviving family members. FWIW, **Algher** , while the situation you’re presenting may be possible, I’m skeptical. Certainly the wording of the throwaway sentence from the AP article implies to me that someone has requested that the missing men be declared dead. “The state refuses to declare the six miners dead without bodies.” Of course there’s no way to tell what entity did press for that declaration. At any rate, I think that for out-of-state persons, the best places to apply pressure would be with two contact points. First, as **TokyoPlayer** suggested: with the [governor’s office](http://www.utah.gov/governor/contact.html). I’m going to be using the “Case Work” address, since I do want to know why the State hasn’t already declared these men legally deceased. The second point of contact that I would suggest would be with the [State’s Attorney General](http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/contact.html)’s office - asking the AG’s office to educate the appropriate local officials about their ability to declare someone dead without a body, citing the body of law that **Gfactor** so generously linked for us. If I get an answer about an existing contact person for this situation I will post it here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-little-late-but-fuck-you-utah/433081.md?page=1)