Wanted to add (because I’ll probably miss the edit window) as much as I feel ready, I can’t just steamroll over my husband’s feelings about this. He understands that he will never feel totally ready, but as he put it, there is a minimum level of readiness that one should feel, and he won’t feel that until May. He is a cautious sort of fellow, not the sort to rush into decisions without serious planning and consideration of alternatives. He has consistently shown himself to be the more realistic and rational between the two of us*, and while his discretion generally chafes in the short-term, I almost always look back with gratitude.
*whereas I have consistently shown myself to be the most fun!
It’s not like I’m having a baby on my own. It’s his life too. And if I start ignoring his feelings now, that sets a dangerous precedent for every decision we make down the road when it comes to our children. It’s not good for our marriage or the kids. I respect his feelings, and I also respect that his judgment is probably superior to mine right now because of what an emotional issue this is for me.
Just had to throw this out there-- We are celebrating our four year wedding anniversary today.
Olives, I read your post and feel tremendous sympathy. By today’s standards, my mom might have been considered abusive, but even when she was this way it was more of a temper tantrum than it was any sort of resentment against my brother and me. I can’t imagine growing up in your environment, and the strength it took to become what you are today, instead of some sort of psychopath. I understand your longing for a normal mother, and to have had a normal childhood. I hope you can get happiness and satisfaction frm realizing who you are and what you have accomplished in the world. You’ve dispensed wisdom here that I am sure has impacted many people, and I am sure you’ve done it IRL as well.
While it’s true that many people can’t control the circumstances under which they choose to have a child, you are in the position to control it somewhat, and I don’t think it’s as much selfish as it is realistic. And just because you are talking about getting pregnant doesn’t mean it’s going to be a picnic to accomplish, nor does it rule out an adoption further down the road…your 9-year-old self’s goal is still very attainable, and will be even moreso once you and your husband are established.
I do hope you can separate out your memories of growing up with your memories of Michigan. I love it here and really hate it when people dismiss it or move away without the nostalgia of having lived in a beautiful place.
Olives -
I read your entire post and I think you are amazing - thoughtful, intelligent, and loving.
I think you’ll be a great mom!
My mother had a horrible childhood. Alcoholic, abusive father and her mother was just bat shit crazy. BUT - she is (and was) a great mother! The kind that would be pulling the cookies out of the oven when you walked in the door from school.
And now, she’s a great mother, grandmother & great-grandmother!
And - giving birth to a child does not mean that you cant’ adopt a child at some point in time.
Talking with your friend about delaying the adoption might be a great idea - she might be able to look after the baby for a couple of months knowing that there’s an end in sight for her.
One thing that occurs to me is that as you once again confront what a lousy mother your own mother was, you have strong feelings that you want to be a mother right now - do you suppose you’re trying to prove something to yourself? That you can be a good mother in spite of how bad your own mother was and is?
This is a great question, and I think the answer is no. I’ve been talking about this for years, it’s something I’ve already waited on for a long time. There was a time when I didn’t know if I wanted children, because I wasn’t sure if I could be a good mother. There was also a time I didn’t want children because I felt like I’d been robbed of my childhood and wanted to focus on myself and meeting MY needs. But as I’ve matured and dealt more directly with my past and learned to move on, my feelings about that have changed. I have been feeling this for a long time, I’ve just had to sublimate my desires in the interest of getting through school. I made the decision not to apply for a Ph.D. program because I decided having more time for parenthood would be more meaningful. Because it is summer time, I’ve had more time to think about it.
Just wanted to add that I’m glad you’re not ignoring your husband in all this. (Which sounds dumb, it’s so obvious, but not everyone does.) Again, I like your current plan and think it’s very sensible.
I, too, am the spontaneous spouse with a realistic partner. It’s turned out to be an excellent combination for us.
Good for you. Every child deserves to be a wanted child. Not necessarily a planned child, or one given a certain amount of opportunities or material goods, but one raised by people who truly want to be raising him/her even if it does make life harder and more stressful. That’s why I’ve never understood people who come into threads like this to try and talk people into having kids–if you have to be talked into something, you clearly don’t want it the way anybody who’s going to tackle parenthood should want kids. Everybody involved deserves a whole hell of a lot better than that.
Hey, I gotta say despite what I posted earlier, it’s awesome that you’ve figured out what you want and a good plan to get there. I think half of getting what you want is just figuring it out.
First-wow, you’re making really smart and mature choices for someone who maybe didn’t have anyone to teach you how to do that as you were growing up. The investment you’re making in creating a respectful partnership will definitely pay off down the road when you and your husband become parents.
Second: consider finding a second mom who can add to your life the things you’re not getting from your real mom. You will find much solace in having a mom-like figure in your life when you become a parent. Is there any chance that you can create that kind of relationship with an older woman who cares about you and will offer emotional support when you need it?
My son’s kindergarten teacher told me that for children to grow up smart and emotionally healthy they need nutritious food, lots of books, and regular interactions with a wacky old lady
I was just wondering about the likelihood of you and your husband finding jobs immediately after graduating. It just seems to me that your timeline is kind of narrow for graduate, get a job, have a baby. I’m not trying to tell you how to live your life, just trying to point out a possible source of great stress (the actual job search). Would you want that both of you were unemployed and expecting your first child at the same time?
Hey Olive, that was a very moving OP. I greatly admire anyone who can climb out of that sort of past, you are a remarkable woman. Everything I’ve ever read of yours tells me you’re also wicked smart. I am always wowed by the compassion and forgiveness you have for a woman who so harmed you. I am not unfamiliar with the long lasting effects of having a mother with mental health issues, myself. I know, only too well, about continuing to seek validation from someone who doesn’t have it to give. I know all about putting myself into her sphere of influence, once healthy myself, only to be triggered by her actions, upset and reliving some of that past pain. I needed to see myself as compassionate and forgiving, I needed to still love her. It took me a long to time see it, but eventually I had to ask myself why did I keep going back to this well? What was in me that kept bringing me back into her sphere of dysfunction, only to be hurt again? She wasn’t revictimizing me, I was! I eventually realized while I had manifested compassion for her it was compassion for myself that was lacking. If I truly felt compassion and forgiveness for myself, I would not need to keep coming to this well. Sure we could talk on the phone, and I’d visit, briefly, from time to time.
I really feel that you should not be putting yourself into close quarters, for a week long visit, with someone so able to trigger such episodes. After all, you wouldn’t dream of putting yourself into the circumstance of spending a week in close quarters with the men who harmed you. Why? Because that would only go badly and it would surely damage your mental health. Please take a hard look at why you’re willing to run that risk with your Mom?
I think all children of mothers with mental illness fear that it’s coming for them one day. Fear they’ll become that mother. As long as your visits with her end with you in tears and questioning why/how can she be this way, you’re not ready to be a Mom, in my opinion. Close, you’re very evolved, to be sure, but not yet there. Shodan is right, you’re healthier, she’s not. But doing the same thing, like visiting her, at length, expecting it will be different this time, is the first step to insanity. Until you can accept it’s not going to be different, it’s not going to get better, your healthier state could all crumble.
Sure you can visit, just don’t do it for a week, alone with her. Visit for an afternoon, bring your husband, keep it light. Stop moving into range and examine why you need to keep doing so.
Personally, I don’t think you should rush the baby thing. Take your time, relax. I’m quite confident you’re going to be an amazing mother whenever you decide it’s time. Be cautious, mother issues run wide and deep, they have a way of resurfacing at difficult times. Set yourself up for success by waiting for the right time, resist being rushed by circumstance.
Your are rightly, very loved on this board, I hope you know how much we all hope you receive all you wish for in life. It is our fervent prayer that all of heaven’s finest blessings shower down upon you!
I’m sorry. My grandmother was not the most grandmotherly person in the world (although not nearly on the scale of dysfunctional as your mother) and two years after she died I’m still running into people who knew her who offer their sympathies and tell me what a wonderful person my grandmother was. I know they are trying to be sympathetic, and I’ve come to realize that she was a different person outside her family than inside it. I say something non-committal like “Yes, she was quite the woman” and leave it at that.
My advice on the parenting is somewhat different than most. If you REALLY WANT THIS, I’d grab it now. Between your family issues and your husband’s mental health, you may not pass a homestudy for a child unless the birth mother specifically requests you. I came darn close to not passing ours, with a year on medication for depression five years before the adoption and a case of sexual abuse as an adult - I don’t have nearly the depth of mental health and sexual abuse history you do. Friends have been trying to adopt now for three years, and tried for three years previously to conceive. These things do not happen simply because you want them to…if you really want this, this might be your only opportunity to make it happen. And this may be the time to decide if you really want this. It may mean throwing school down the drain - you know what, kids often mean sacrificing your career. If you aren’t ready to do that now, for this opportunity - you might not really want kids at all. I sincerely hope that if you pass on this opportunity, you find a smoother path to adoption than I believe you may find - but I think its worth acknowledging that that path is not smooth or certain.
Had I known the challenges to conceiving or adopting before I spent four years on the process, I’d have made different decisions. BUT, the challenges do NOT end when the children arrive - they only start.
Just so you know, my friend cannot wait until May. So I am letting it go now.
I actually do have something like this, in my Aunt. She is somewhat like a cross between an older sister, best friend, and mother, and we have been super close since the day I was born. She actually visited me and Mom last week and when the subject of kids came up during a private moment (this is before I got all upset), she said she didn’t feel like she wanted kids because in her mind, she’d already raised one. She took me into her home when I was 17 because even though I would have to work hard and pay my own bills, she knew it was going to be better than living at home. She is the first one I called when I felt hurt by my mother’s behavior, and she was extremely validating and supportive. I think her example is one very big reason I was able to make constructive decisions for myself.
We wouldn’t both be looking at the same time. I graduate in April 2011, and if all goes right he’ll receive his Ph.D. in 2013. We’ve decided we’re comfortable having children as long as we’ve both got our Master’s degrees – he should receive his in January and I’ll get mine shortly thereafter.
This time next summer he will still be receiving a small stipend, while I will probably need at least part-time work. We will have some funds set aside to help get us through that first year, and I plan to start setting aside even more starting now. We are actually doing all right in the savings department, and we will have two brand-new cars paid in full which won’t hurt. I’m not saying it’s going to be ideal, but it will be light-years better than the situation now, and let’s be honest – much more favorable than the circumstances of a lot of families.
One thing I absolutely guarantee will not happen: we will not have this child until we can reasonably afford it and feel secure in our ability to provide for its needs. We have a lot of planning and logistical work to do.
Thanks for your kind and wise words.
I have managed to establish and maintain clear boundaries with my mother pretty well for the last five years. This whole thing was really more of an innocent mistake than it was an attempt to achieve validation or support. I was bored at home with nothing to do (this being summer break), and decided this was as good a time as any to go see some of my family. I wasn’t really planning on staying with her for an entire week, and I didn’t clearly understand her living situation at the time (she is living in a motel.) Once there, I vastly underestimated the impact of spending an entire week with her, based on how well I’ve handled things over the last five years. This was my mistake, and not one I will make again.
I realize this might sound somewhat defensive, but I’m pretty sure I’ve accepted this. When I was 22 I told her I wasn’t going to speak to her as long as she stayed married to her husband (who abused me)–only because she refused to honor my boundaries and kept pushing him on me. I didn’t talk to her for an entire year, so willing was I to accept who she was and the damaging effect she had on my life. About a year later, she divorced him, and the woman who came to request a new relationship was not AT ALL like the woman who raised me. She was more like the woman I remember as a little girl, before she lost her freaking mind. I tell you with utmost sincerity that if my mother were to become that horrible bitch monster from hell again, I would drop her in a hot second. I wouldn’t even hesitate. And she knows it.
I think because I was living states away and only getting her in small doses, my mistake was in overestimating how much of the past she was willing to confront. I almost think it was easier when she was in complete denial of everything, because at least then I knew what to expect.
One thing I didn’t mention in the OP is that I went home sooner than originally planned, because I knew the situation wasn’t healthy. You make a great point about needing to know how to set boundaries with people who hurt you, and needing to work through all that before you can be an effective parent, but I think you also have to be realistic. There are some scars that never really heal, and anyone with parent-related PTSD can tell you that as you go through life phases, you will find things come up out of nowhere you thought were already resolved. Parenthood is one of the single most triggering experiences for countless people who suffered at the hands of their own parents, and it’s not realistic to expect to feel absolutely nothing.
Someone asked upthread if my desire for parenthood stemmed from my feelings about my own mother. I would posit the opposite is true–the reason this hit me so hard is because I felt, for the first time in my life, what it was like to be a parent.
There was a time where my mother’s presence was positively debilitating – I was barely able to function, get dressed or shower, leave the house, go to work, etc. I think it’s extremely telling of where I’m at that the worst that happened here is I left a day early and cried a lot. I called my Aunt and said, ‘‘OMG can you believe what she said?!!’’ and she was like ‘’‘What?! No WAY!’’ and then I came home and posted this thread to try to sort out all the feelings. Yeah, crying sucks, and yes, the pain is real. But it’s not like my life crumbled at the foundations. One of the most important things I learned from doing exposure therapy for Mom-related PTSD is that pain doesn’t destroy you. It just is.
Thanks so much for your kindness and support. It is deeply appreciated.
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. My husband is certainly not the one whose mental health should be of concern. He has been experiencing some depressive symptoms, so he scored himself on the Beck Depression Inventory–he got a 13. That’s pretty low, on the high end of ‘‘minimal depression’’ and almost qualifying for ‘‘mild depression.’’ It is not sufficient for a diagnosis of clinical depression. This worries him, because he is generally extremely mentally stable. I feel like a lot of his reasons for saying ‘‘no’’ to this baby can be reasoned away – which means he’s just trying to rationalize his gut telling him he’s not ready. I can respect that.
Me, on the other hand… well, if what you say is true, maybe adoption isn’t a realistic goal for me. I was hospitalized for suicidal ideation at age 19 and was medicated between the ages of 18 and 23. I had to register as a disabled student and ended up withdrawing from school for two years. All of that was related to recovering from my childhood.
I have been highly functional since 2005, people who know me wouldn’t guess that I still suffer from PTSD and its associated depression and anxiety. This is because I’ve learned how to deal with it constructively. As my husband is on the career track to clinical psychologist this is a household that’s very open and proactive about mental health issues.
Even though my experiences have made me a stronger and healthier person, I honestly couldn’t blame a prospective parent for turning me down based on my history. They don’t know me the way I know me.
That seems a little extreme to me. I don’t think making irrational choices based on pure emotion is really the best way to kick off parenthood. I am a Masters student in a very expensive, very difficult program at a university that carries a lot of clout. Having this degree could very well be the difference between finding a good job in today’s market and being unemployed. If I quit now, I would be responsible for $60k of student loans that went toward absolutely nothing. I think quitting school is one of the most financially irresponsible choices I could possibly make right now.
I have always felt very strongly that I want to be capable of getting a good job before I have children; in the event that something happens to my husband I need to know I can take care of my family. I think I can hang in there one more year in order to have this safety net.
AFAIC, I have already ‘‘sacrificed my career’’ for children – in that I have decided not to pursue a Ph.D. This thing right now is more about paying the bills.
Nothing in life ever is, right? That’s why I’m seriously considering childbirth. AFAIK I have no reproductive issues to worry about; I just never really wanted to do it. The more I think about it, though, the more I like the idea of having a little creature inside me, talking and singing to it. I remember my Mom’s stories of how much I loved water before I was even born – I would kick and squirm in her womb whenever she took a bath. I wonder what sorts of things I might discover about my own child before it’s even born.
It’s bizarre and maybe somewhat backward, but in the same way that countless women have to come to terms with the fact they may never conceive, I may have to come to terms with the fact I may never adopt. I’m not giving up or anything, I’m just saying I have to be realistic.
It doesn’t really matter how much I feel I’m ready. My husband is not ready for this child. Since posting about my dilemma, I have received a number of PMs from prospective parents who feel this may be serendipity – a sign for THEM. So I realize that this feeling of hope and desire is universal among people who desperately want to be parents. My friend’s baby was a sign all right – a sign that I really want to be a parent more than I had even realized. A sign that parenthood is just as much about using your head as it is your heart, and choosing the best interest of the child over instant gratification of even your greatest desires. A sign that becoming a mother and being a mother promises to be no less challenging and emotional than every other part of life. In a way, my ability to say ‘‘no’’ despite the emotional pull reinforces my understanding that when the time comes, I’ll be ready.
Don’t let people get to you. I think we all kind of got pulled in by that same initial excitement that you felt, without having the inconvenient reality to deal with. I think you know that we support you.
When I do have to pass up an opportunity, I tell myself that there is a good reason for it. It could be that you are dodging some bullet that you can’t even see. Things will work out for the best. You have a good head on your shoulders. Just keep doing what you’re doing right, and things will be great!
Olives–don’t let anyone here sway you. You talk to Mr O and figure it out (like you have). There is NOTHING wrong with wanting (or having) your own biological child–what utter nonsense to think that’s a bad decision (in general–we all know people who should never become parents). There is also nothing wrong with adoption–as you say, there are so many kids who need love and stability in this world.
You can have it all–bio and adopted–if you want it. But as I have said, you two must choose the right time and circumstances. And you will. You have a lot to offer ANY child. It may be hard won and a bitch to have gone through, but (IMO) you’re as sane as the day is long and have an insight that is remarkable to behold.
Don’t concern yourself with your mother. You can’t change her. Keep working on you and yours; create that haven of security and peace for yourselves and when you’re ready, bring the children in to share it. We will celebrate with you no matter what you decide.
Eh, I had to not only learn how to parent; I had to UNlearn any number of nasty things myself. Parents have too much power and it is only by being humble and open minded that true communication and parenting can occur. Just MO. If you’re like me, you have good instincts. Listen to your gut, but let your head prevail. And when you get into territory where you don’t know from normal, watch [del]The Brady Bunch[/del] ask here (or better, in RL) for a reality check.
