# A major sport totally dying out **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 14, 2013, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457 "2013-07-14T04:11:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/41 "2013-07-15T15:40:01Z")
Is there still a pro indoor soccer league anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/42 "2013-07-15T15:50:54Z")
41 posts and no one’s mentioned Roller Derby? From what I understand, this was a huge sport in the early days of TV, if strictly a blue-collar one. There have been a couple of attempts to revive a women’s league but I think they all fizzled out. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/43 "2013-07-15T16:02:31Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > It seems like open-wheel racing in the US is sort of in the same category as horse racing where there’s interest in the Indy 500 and US F1 race if there is one, but the regular racing season never really recovered from the CART/IRL split back in the 90’s. It’s on it’s way back - they got back together under the IndyCar name, and now have a good schedule of oval and street/road racing, which draw some decent crowds. Car racing in general is hurting right now, including NASCAR, probably because kids don’t seem to care about cars anymore. IndyCar had four races broadcast on ABC this year, one in prime time, and the ratings were actually pretty good - low, but regular low, not horrible basement low. Track attendance is up from past years, and they’re bringing back some of tracks that used to be huge, like Pocono. One of the main people who are working with IndyCar to promote the sport is Michael Andretti, who does things like sponsor/bankroll the Milwaukee Indy Fest, with races and a carnival, and being on Celebrity Apprentice. Also, the movie Turbo is coming out soon (like this weekend?) which is a kids movie competely about IndyCar and a snail who competes in the 500, and Forza 5 will include the current Indy car in their vehicle roster. So, hopefully, the people at Georgetown are starting to pull their heads out of their asses and get some momentum. I hope so - this has been the best season yet, and it’s excellent racing. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/44 "2013-07-15T16:11:53Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Car racing in general is hurting right now, including NASCAR, probably because kids don’t seem to care about cars anymore. Car racing has become so divorced from street cars and marques that there’s nothing to hold the vast middle tier’s interest. You have to like hot machinery, regardless of brand or everyday relevance, or the subtleties of racing strategy; you can’t go cheer Ford or Chevy or Nissan or Mercedes in any meaningful way any more. Engines are generic, chassis are generic, whole cars are identical in some classes (and not just spec classes, either). Is there ANYTHING left in NASCAR of “stock cars” except the longitudinal profiles? I keep seeing a sweat-soaked Junior Johnson climbing out of his 427 Galaxie (just like the white one my dad drove) in a t-shirt and comparing it to Jimmie Johnson’s generic rolling billboard (and billboard suit)… who could possibly care any more? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/45 "2013-07-15T16:20:29Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > There were also airplane races in the 1920s and 30s. Still hanging on in a few places. [Reno](http://www.airrace.org/), for exampe. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/46 "2013-07-15T16:22:01Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > 41 posts and no one’s mentioned Roller Derby? From what I understand, this was a huge sport in the early days of TV, if strictly a blue-collar one. There have been a couple of attempts to revive a women’s league but I think they all fizzled out. There’s a lot of local small scale stuff going on. I don’t know how big it ever was, I remember it had some moderate success for a few years in the 70s. Even then it seemed to be a small arena sport. Some time in the 90s there was an attempt at televised Roller Derby events. They added some kind of ramp to the traditional oval. It still seemed to be focused on the ‘girl fight’ aspect of the game though, and I don’t think it lasted very long. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/47 "2013-07-15T16:28:21Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > 41 posts and no one’s mentioned Roller Derby? From what I understand, this was a huge sport in the early days of TV, if strictly a blue-collar one. There have been a couple of attempts to revive a women’s league but I think they all fizzled out. The [Women’s Flat Track Derby Association](http://www.wftda.com/) has nearly 200 active member leagues. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/48 "2013-07-15T16:29:47Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Forza 5 will include the current Indy car in their vehicle roster. So they finally figured out how to model open wheel operation? Cool! ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/49 "2013-07-15T16:34:06Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > Whatever gave you that idea? An estimated 28 million people in the US played tennis last year, a number that has increased each of the last few years. > > The US Open is the highest-attended annual sporting event in the world, with an attendance of over 700,000. Of course, as it lasts two weeks that 700k will include many people going more than once. > > What has changed is that male American players no longer dominate the world game, so you hear less in the news than in the days of Sampras/Agassi/Courier/McEnroe/Connors. What probably gave him that idea is the fact that he is correct. Professional tennis is [declining](http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2008/07/04/wimbledon-tennis-viewership-1973-2008/4209/) in [popularity](http://observer.com/2010/09/tennis-television-ratings-tumble/) in the US. Nothing you posted really disputes that. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/50 "2013-07-15T16:35:01Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Car racing has become so divorced from street cars and marques that there’s nothing to hold the vast middle tier’s interest. You have to like hot machinery, regardless of brand or everyday relevance, or the subtleties of racing strategy; you can’t go cheer Ford or Chevy or Nissan or Mercedes in any meaningful way any more. Engines are generic, chassis are generic, whole cars are identical in some classes (and not just spec classes, either). > > Is there ANYTHING left in NASCAR of “stock cars” except the longitudinal profiles? I keep seeing a sweat-soaked Junior Johnson climbing out of his 427 Galaxie (just like the white one my dad drove) in a t-shirt and comparing it to Jimmie Johnson’s generic rolling billboard (and billboard suit)… who could possibly care any more? It’s the way of the world now. They are going to have to follow the NFL and NASCAR path of pushing the celebrity and the rivalries and the Big Stories about the drivers. And there’s nothing wrong with that. People don’t/can’t work on cars anymore, so the interest in the engines is waning. But the idea of the racing is still the same. There’s still the drivers’ skill set and the tricks of the track and the crashes and the close finishes and everything else. It’s just that the average fan cares more about the rivalry between Power and Franchitti and their personal villains and heroes. And that’s fine. There’s still debates like Honda vs. Chevy engines, and car detail like red vs black tires and wing angel, but it’s all geared toward the average fan, with not a lot of heavy detail on fuel injected 409s or whatever. Most people don’t care about that anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/51 "2013-07-15T16:48:18Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > So they finally figured out how to model open wheel operation? Cool! Very cool. And Forza is well-known for excellent car modeling, so I have high hopes…except it’s only on the XBoxOne, so I won’t get to play it. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/52 "2013-07-15T17:35:39Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Very cool. And Forza is well-known for excellent car modeling, so I have high hopes…except it’s only on the XBoxOne, so I won’t get to play it. ☹ Yeah, not gonna plunk down five hundred bucks just to play the new Forza. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/53 "2013-07-15T17:37:52Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Major Indoor Soccer League has operated almost continuously (albeit under different management) since the late 70s. > > [Major Indoor Soccer League - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Indoor_Soccer_League) > [National Professional Soccer League (1984–2001) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Professional_Soccer_League_II) Wow, I had no idea that there had been so many incarnations of the MISL, or that one still existed. Ignorance fought! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/54 "2013-07-15T17:45:17Z")
I don’t think of this as a major sport, but I think raquetball is also well on the way out. It was a fitness fad from the 80’s that lasted quite a few years, but as time went on I saw more and more raquetball courts at fitness centers being converted into yoga studios. There’s a handful in my city, but nowhere near its golden age. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/55 "2013-07-15T18:02:29Z")
I’ve always thought that boxing and horse racing, the quintessential examples of formerly major sports headed for oblivion, played a major role in doing themselves in, though in totally different ways. Back when I was growing up, from the period when Ali (still Cassius Clay at that point) beat Liston, through the Ali-Frazier-Foreman battles of the early 1970s, major boxing matches weren’t on regular television; they were on closed-circuit TV. You had to go to a theatre with the closed-circuit hookup in order to watch, and you paid a premium price to do so, which was why - in the short run - it was more lucrative for boxing to sell its product this way. But it’s easy to see how that would have cut the sport off from its prospective next generation of fans. (Someday I’ll have to watch some of those fights on YouTube that I didn’t have the opportunity to see 40-50 years ago.) Horse racing was on TV when I was growing up - the Triple Crown, of course, but also some of the races leading up to it. The problem there was of a different nature: it was all about the 3 year olds, since the Triple Crown races were (and are) for 3 year old horses only. After a horse’s 3 year old season, it would be syndicated for stud, and next year there’d be a new crop of 3 year olds. Imagine how any other sport would fare under those circumstances - imagine having to pick a new team to root for each year, because the team you’d rooted for last year no longer existed, and last year’s players had all retired. That would test the devotion of most fans after awhile. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/56 "2013-07-15T19:21:30Z")
I guess I qualify as “next generation” and I’ll tell you what. We spent lots of time watching boxing on HBO, and really enjoyed it. Until we got rid of our movie channels. I haven’t watched a fight in years. Boxing, like racing, needs to find a new way to get to the masses. All the old “televised” sports aren’t doing well in the transition to the new media (however you define that). I remember the first time someone invited me to watch “the fight” at their house. I was excited, until I got there and realized that it was MMA. Ug… I wonder how MMA has captured attention and if any of those lessons can be applied to the old sports. But I believe that most of the problem is that the people pulling the strings in those sports are too old school. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/57 "2013-07-15T20:08:37Z")
**RTFirefly** has it right for boxing, though the time frame was a little later. In the 60s, all heavyweight championship fights were televised and you could follow a boxer’s career. This started ending in the 70s for the reasons he mentions: everything went to closed circuit and later pay-per-view. More money in the short run, but a disaster in the long run. It also didn’t help that there were more and more organizations sanctioning bouts and more and more champions and weight divisions. Back in the 60s, there were fewer divisions, and one champion in each (occasionally there were disputed championships, but they were resolved quickly). Now it’s hard to keep track of the champion since there’s usually two or three of them. The “governing” bodies are interested in having their own champions, since it brings them more money. Since the money in horse racing is in stud fees, horses usually retire after their three-year-old season to avoid injury. In the 60s, you’d seen horses run as four-year-olds, so you could keep track of them. Also, far more races were shown on TV – things like the Wood Memorial, the Marlboro Cup, the Travers, etc. – so you could watch the races all year instead of just the triple crown season. Right now, the only horses that can develop fans and a following are geldings, who have no stud value. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/58 "2013-07-16T01:48:40Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > What probably gave him that idea is the fact that he is correct. Professional tennis is [declining](http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2008/07/04/wimbledon-tennis-viewership-1973-2008/4209/) in [popularity](http://observer.com/2010/09/tennis-television-ratings-tumble/) in the US. Nothing you posted really disputes that. The OP talks about a major sport totally dying out. A fall in TV viewership of some pro events is a long way short of “totally dying out”, especially when participation and live viewership remain strong. And if we are cherry-picking data, the [US Open finals TV ratings in 2012](http://espn.go.com/tennis/usopen12/story/_/id/8367924/more-16-million-watch-andy-murray-us-open-win) were the highest for several years for both the men’s and women’s final. And from zap2it, for the recently completed Wimbledon: > [@](#): > > The 2013 fortnight of The Championships, Wimbledon thrilled tennis fans with surprises and an historic ending and it provided two of ESPN’s biggest five audiences for tennis in its 33+ years. Slightly old data (as was yours), but [this](http://www.sfia.org/press/5_-The-American-Sports-Scene%3A-An-Analysis-of-Sports-Participation-in-the-U.S.) lists tennis as the 10th fastest growing participation sport from 2000 - 2007. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/59 "2013-07-16T12:14:05Z")
Generational fandom evolves and even the powerful NFL, at a point of dominance never before reached by any American sport, is not immune to the forces of change. Participation in high school football is slowly declining (except in the Deep South) and game attendance has slightly declined over the past four years. It’s still way too early to call it the death of football; in fact, football may have the longest and greatest run of popularity ever seen. But _things change_. ---
**Author:** ![JerrySTL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e274bd/32.png) [@JerrySTL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerrySTL)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457/60 "2013-07-16T12:24:29Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Legitimate professional wrestling died out in the 20s (?) though it was never really big. > > Do they still run the six-day bicycle races? I used to swatch them as a kid on occasion. In Europe they do. In Japan they have Keirin bicycle races that are held on tracks. Years ago bicycling was big in the USA. Really big. The first Madison Square Garden (there have been four) was also a velodrome that held six-day races to packed crowds. Top bicycle racers made more money than top baseball players around 1900. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-major-sport-totally-dying-out/663457.md?page=4)