If we were to make a contest where animals of different species had to reach a goal post in the shortest amount of time, what would be the optimal conditions for humans?
Based on blakes posts it seems to be some long distance (40 km) on a plain field, in hot weather.
Is this the method we used to hunt in prehistory, running the animals tired on the african plains? Or why else are we so good at it?
It is suspected that some albatrosses may spend literally years in flight (sleeping with half their brains when necessary). Even if they do rest at times, it’s certain that they spend a far greater time in the air than any other birds, with the possible exception of some swifts. Albatrosses probably cover many tens of thousands of miles in continuous flight.
Previous thread. Lots of links, data, arguments.
Yeah, we can run damn near anything into the ground.
I’m not an athlete, just a modern sedentary middle-aged guy, but I could do 30-mile days for several consecutive days, or 50 in a single day if I didn’t have to move much the next day.
Yes, but how does an albatross’s cruising speed compare to a goose’s? A goose can sustain about 60 MPH while it’s flying, though I think it needs to rest every day. But if, for instance, a goose can sustain 60 MPH for 16 hours per day, while an albatross goes 24/7/365 at 30 MPH, then the goose would still be the winner. Note that I have no idea whether those numbers are correct (except for the 60 MPH figure for geese; I’m sure I’ve read that somewhere); I’m just using them to illustrate what I’m asking.
Apologies for the hijack, but what’s the motivation for the albatross to do that? And what do they eat all the while? The in-flight meals must be terrible!
In the real life example I heard or read (it may have been the NPR story,) two long-distance runners were able to stay fairly close to a caribou or something, once they separated it from the herd. They chased for a long time, but the prey fooled them by uniting again with a herd of caribou. They came over a rise to see dozens of them. Which one was the one they’d been chasing all day? They had no way of knowing.
I thought by “long distance flying” you meant which could travel the longest distance without stopping, not which could cover a fixed distance in the shortest amount of time.
From here
Geese may be able to fly 60 MPH if they have it cranked up, but 40-50 MPH is more typical. But Canada Geese don’t normally fly long distances each day; in fact their northward migration is quite slow. In exceptional instances, they might cover 500 miles before stopping. Snow Geese migrate faster; from the article it sounds as if they might sometimes cover 1000 miles without stopping.
Albatrosses use soaring flight to cruise the prevailing westerlies that circle the Antarctic continent. These latitudes are known among sailors as the Roaring Forties, Furious Fifties, and Screaming Sixties, from their continuous high winds. Wind speeds of 70 MPH are common and they can reach 150 MPH. So albatrosses may regularly experience much higher wind speeds than geese.
It’s difficult for them to take off from the water, and in general it’s probably safer to stay aloft. There are no obstruction around the Antarctic, and they circle the continent continuously. They feed on squid and fish plucked from the surface.
When I was 16 or so, I did the Amos Alonzo Stagg endurance hike with my Boy Scout troop. It was 50 miles (50.2 to be precise) over mostly flat ground, and you had to complete it in 18 hours or less to get the coffee mug or whatever the hell they handed out.
Our troop of reasonably fit high schoolers, along with a fiftysomething scout master, did it with hours to spare, at a sustained brisk walk with no stops longer than it took to open a pack or trail mix in the dark. My longest stops were 90 seconds or so to pee.
So, starting before dawn and finishing after dark, a human could cover 50 miles in a day without even running. I did.
There’s a colony of Royal Albatrosses at Taiaroa Head, near Dunedin, New Zealand. At the visitor center there (well worth a visit) there are many displays about albatrosses. According to some tracking they’ve done, typical albatross flying speeds are 100-110kph.
The information at this visitor center also confirms what Colibri has posted: that large albatrosses spend most of their time in the air and rarely land.
“He seems to be gaining on us. Do you think he’s using the same wind we’re using?”
That is to say, a strong wind will benefit all birds equally, if they happen to be in it. So I don’t think that it’s fair to give a bird credit for wind, in a race. Whichever bird has the highest average sustained airspeed will win.
And if snow geese cover 1000 miles a day at 50 MPH, that’s 20 hours of flight time. Spending 5/6 of their time in the air sounds to me like some pretty good endurance. For the goonybirds to beat that, in terms of airspeed, even flying continuously, they’d have to average over 40 MPH. Do they have that kind of airspeed? Granted, the air the frequent is itself moving pretty fast, so they have a lot of ground speed, but I don’t think geese on a north-south migration path have that advantage. And even a sloth can move quickly, if it’s on a really fast treadmill.
I own the “Life in the Freezer” with David Attenborough DVD. In it it takes four men to catch a penguin. So I’d have to say not!
Well, I was working up a response to this, explaining how it would vary based on the terrain, but then I noticed…
Ouch. I missed that line in the OP. I thought we were talking about the real world, where terrain is critically important. That condition invalidates most of my arguments.
In the immortal words of Emily Litella, “Never mind.”
Well, I was working up a response to this, explaining how it would vary based on the terrain, but then I noticed…
Ouch. I missed that line in the OP. I thought we were talking about the real world, where terrain is critically important. That condition invalidates most of my arguments.
In the immortal words of Emily Litella, “Never mind.”
Geese and albatrosses have completely different flight methods, so it is nearly impossible to compare them. Albatrosses are dynamic soarers, and can hardly fly at all in still air. They need wind to fly. Geese, in contrast, employ flapping flight almost exclusively - I can’t say I’ve ever seen one soar for more than a very short time. I doubt that they would even try to fly in gale force winds - if there was much turbulence, they might not be able to control their flight very well. I don’t think a Canada Goose would last very long in the Roaring Forties.
You could never have a fair race between a goose and an albatross. Comparing their performances in each other’s environment is sort of like comparing how fast a cheetah would go in the middle of the ocean to how fast a dolphin would go on the African savanna.
The bottom line is that albatrosses in general cover a lot more distance over a given amount of time, which is probably the figure of relevance.
Actually, the OP did not specify that, but offered that scenario as one option. There’s evidence that our genus spent a lot of time in a savanna environment during our evolution, but we lived in lots of other types of environments as well, so I don’t know how “real world” that assumption is.
That would have been my guess, humans aren’t fast but we’re dogged and our ability to sweat gives us a massive advantage in the heat. However it depends a bit on what animal we are chasing. Camels for example are good distance runners but they can’t sustain a fast pace in the heat, so the best bet their might be extreme temperatures (45oC or higher) and a distance of 5-10km.
That’s one theory, and certainly plenty of people have used cursorial hunting.
The other theory is simply that it’s an adaptation to semi-arid environments. Many herbivores of semi arid and arid regions like kangaroos and camels have impressive abilities to cover long distances quickly. That enables them to move between isolated watering points and to chase storm rains. The human ability to travel fast may have evolved for the same reason. By being able to run distances we can camp on a water hole and forage out many miles. Meanwhile competitors like baboons are restricted to just a few miles around standing water because they can’t go any further and still make it back to drink in the evenings. That alone would make distance running a major advantage.
Could it be this story from This American Life? Scott Carrier’s story starts about 6 and a half minutes into the audio clip.
Just so that this isn’t a total hijack, is our ability to master cursorial hunting largely a product of our specific physiology/metabolism, or does our dominance in this field depend much on the animals’ short-sighted evasive tactics vs. our focused pursuit?
To put it another way, are cursorial hunters in a physical or behavioral niche? If we could dropped some knowledge on the big cats, can a cheetah jog down her prey and finally get a taste of the fat life?
Some of both, but humans are better adpated to distance running than most animals so provided a human can manage to track an animal they will normally run it down. The animals can’t simply keep moving to evade us because we will cover far more ground in a single day.
Nope. The big deal here is heat dispersal. Humans can sweat a lot so we can manage susteined exercise. Cats can’t sweat so they are limited to short intense bursts of activity followed by long peridos of cooling down. A cheetah wouldn;t have any advanatge over a buffalo in a distance race, and both would start to overheat within minutes rather than hours.
Even with the “…provided they can either track it or keep it in sight” bit this is misleading at best.
I took the OP to only suggest a savanna (“viz”). A trained hunter/gatherer famier with the terrain could pull this off with some animals.
But an average male in the American woods would loose a deer instantly. I know, I’ve tried it a lot. This is the main problem not endurance.
And I’m a good tracker, but this:
is way off… unless you are tracking in snow or mud (and before you ask for a cite, proffer one up on you assumption).
Meant…to…preview…