# A man I grew up with was falsely convicted of capital murder. Is there anything you can do to help? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 2, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-i-grew-up-with-was-falsely-convicted-of-capital-murder-is-there-anything-you-can-do-to-help/604789 "2011-12-02T03:26:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-i-grew-up-with-was-falsely-convicted-of-capital-murder-is-there-anything-you-can-do-to-help/604789/101 "2016-05-19T14:36:16Z")
> [@Noel\_Prosequi](#): > > **Shagnasty** ’s clearly sincere views, and his apparent lay understanding of legal issues, may have been unpersuasive to many, not because his primary thesis is wrong, but because it was overlaid with opinions that clearly were a consequence of his (perhaps justified) own views on issues. > > [Here](http://law.justia.com/cases/texas/twelfth-court-of-appeals/2011/9700.html) is a copy of the intermediate Court of Appeal decision that affirmed the first conviction. I have yet to find the Supreme Court of Texas decision, but the decision I have attached explains the issues and the facts. > > TLDR is that the court considered that the bare circumstantial evidence was not by itself sufficient to sustain a conviction (the rag, the holes, the insurance, etc) but that the expert evidence that indicated that the deceased son must have been moved after death (obviously impossible on Payne’s account) together with the circumstantial evidence, was. > > The evidence of moving the body arose in two ways. First, there was stippling on the body of the son (from discharge residue) that suggested a narrow range of distance from the muzzle to the site of the stippling from which the weapon must have been discharged. There was then some conflicting evidence about whether it was possible to manipulate the weapon into the necessary position to achieve this. The best the defence could advance was an unlikely scenario involving using hs feet to prop the gun against the floor and his toes to operate both the safety and the trigger. I suggest this is unlikely (that is not a specific conclusion by the Court) because it is necessary to resort to this because of the stippling. The question arises, why would the son go to such awkward lengths to shoot himself when it would have been so much easier (and more common) for him to have pressed the muzzle against his head and discharged the weapon with his hands? > > The second body of evidence about moving the corpse of the deceased was said to emerge from finding of the son’s own blood on the palm of his hand. The presentation of this was not consistent with mere post-mortem flow given the arrangement of the body. It indicated that the body had been moved. > > I make the obvious point that where there is a clash of experts, there is no rule that the jury must follow the expert most favourable to the defence. Much depends on the content of the evidence itself, and it is typically for a jury to resolve who is right. > It would seem the case is perhaps stronger than **shagnasty** seems to think, with genuine respect to him as a long term member of the boards. That does not mean that it was a slam dunk for the state, but it does mean that there was more to this than small town juries and allegedly influential relatives. > I appreciate that there has been a subsequent ruling in the Texas Supreme Court, but again that court concluded that there was a basis to convict. > > In the absence of the evidence at the most recent trial, I will withhold any final view about whether the evidence was sufficient, but I hope this advances the debate somewhat. Thanks, very useful. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-i-grew-up-with-was-falsely-convicted-of-capital-murder-is-there-anything-you-can-do-to-help/604789/102 "2016-05-19T14:52:07Z")
The fact that the Innocence Project got involved says a lot, in my opinion. They don’t take cases unless they are pretty sure an injustice occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Justice\_for\_Nichole\_and\_Taylor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Justice\_for\_Nichole\_and\_Taylor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justice_for_Nichole_and_Taylor)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-i-grew-up-with-was-falsely-convicted-of-capital-murder-is-there-anything-you-can-do-to-help/604789/103 "2016-11-07T14:27:51Z")
Faye Payne was arrested early this October for Witness Tampering…she was trying to find someone to threaten to Harm the EMT and their children if they had any. A recording device was found at Faye’s house implicating also Jason Payne. Not exactly what “Innocent” people go around doing. Side note: What the media seems to like to just leave out…Nichole was Drugged the night before she died with Benadryl (which she rarely took because it knocked her out for days) but she had Toxic levels in her system. [http://woodcountymonitor.com/stories/convicted-murderers-mom-charged-with-attempted-witness-tampering,103801](http://woodcountymonitor.com/stories/convicted-murderers-mom-charged-with-attempted-witness-tampering,103801) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-i-grew-up-with-was-falsely-convicted-of-capital-murder-is-there-anything-you-can-do-to-help/604789/104 "2016-11-07T14:29:29Z")
Reported. ( **Justice for Nichole and Taylor** ) ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-i-grew-up-with-was-falsely-convicted-of-capital-murder-is-there-anything-you-can-do-to-help/604789/105 "2016-11-07T14:47:28Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Reported. ( **Justice for Nichole and Taylor** ) Just curious, but why report that post? Is there something about it that is against the rules? It seems like a lot of other ‘link to a news story’ posts to me. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-i-grew-up-with-was-falsely-convicted-of-capital-murder-is-there-anything-you-can-do-to-help/604789/106 "2016-11-07T15:22:51Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Just curious, but why report that post? Is there something about it that is against the rules? It seems like a lot of other ‘link to a news story’ posts to me. The poster was a one and done, no sticking around to discuss. Possible spam or call to action. Thread hijack, maybe split off to new thread. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-i-grew-up-with-was-falsely-convicted-of-capital-murder-is-there-anything-you-can-do-to-help/604789/107 "2016-11-07T18:54:26Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The poster was a one and done, no sticking around to discuss. > Possible spam or call to action. > Thread hijack, maybe split off to new thread. How the hell do you know that? ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-i-grew-up-with-was-falsely-convicted-of-capital-murder-is-there-anything-you-can-do-to-help/604789/108 "2016-11-07T19:09:06Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Just curious, but why report that post? Is there something about it that is against the rules? It seems like a lot of other ‘link to a news story’ posts to me. > [@running\_coach](#): > > **The poster was a one and done, no sticking around to discuss**. > Possible spam or call to action. > Thread hijack, maybe split off to new thread. > [@madsircool](#): > > How the hell do you know that? How could you know that? You reported the post 2 minutes after it was posted. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-i-grew-up-with-was-falsely-convicted-of-capital-murder-is-there-anything-you-can-do-to-help/604789/109 "2016-11-07T22:30:02Z")
It doesn’t look like spam at all to me. It simply offers a couple of new points from the viewpoint of a poster who believes the man is guilty. I thought it an interesting post. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-i-grew-up-with-was-falsely-convicted-of-capital-murder-is-there-anything-you-can-do-to-help/604789/110 "2016-11-08T01:10:17Z")
> [@Justice\_for\_Nichole\_and\_Taylor](#): > > Faye Payne was arrested early this October for Witness Tampering…she was trying to find someone to threaten to Harm the EMT and their children if they had any. A recording device was found at Faye’s house implicating also Jason Payne. > > Not exactly what “Innocent” people go around doing. Side note: What the media seems to like to just leave out…Nichole was Drugged the night before she died with Benadryl (which she rarely took because it knocked her out for days) but she had Toxic levels in her system. > > [http://woodcountymonitor.com/stories/convicted-murderers-mom-charged-with-attempted-witness-tampering,103801](http://woodcountymonitor.com/stories/convicted-murderers-mom-charged-with-attempted-witness-tampering,103801) That is a shame. I never knew her to be anything but a very nice person. I don’t think it says much about _his_ actual guilt or innocence in the murders themselves but desperate people do desperate things sometimes. I think we can all agree that threatening witnesses and their families is not good no matter what the reason. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-i-grew-up-with-was-falsely-convicted-of-capital-murder-is-there-anything-you-can-do-to-help/604789/111 "2016-11-08T02:39:35Z")
**Shagnasty,** can you verify if any of the things **J.f.N.a.T.** said were actually presented at trial? The Benadryl claim, especially (which isn’t mentioned at all in the linked article.) Can’t really say if these new developments are leaning either way towards guilty or innocent. Sounds like a fucked-up situation all around. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-i-grew-up-with-was-falsely-convicted-of-capital-murder-is-there-anything-you-can-do-to-help/604789/112 "2016-11-08T02:51:15Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > **Shagnasty,** can you verify if any of the things **J.f.N.a.T.** said were actually presented at trial? The Benadryl claim, especially (which isn’t mentioned at all in the linked article.) > > Can’t really say if these new developments are leaning either way towards guilty or innocent. Sounds like a fucked-up situation all around. ☹ That is the first I have heard about the Benadryl claim and I don’t believe it was presented at the trial although I haven’t read the entire transcript of the new trial in detail. The whole thing is a bad situation. I still do not believe he is guilty based on the evidence and what I know about him personally but the Texas justice system feels differently at least for now. The Innocence Project is still working on his case to the best of my knowledge and he will likely get an appeal even if that is years from now. There has been an ongoing feud with the families involved for years now. It is understandable because most people don’t react well to having to deal with a murder-suicide or a double murder and then issues like child custody and financial strain but this one is especially bad. I don’t fault **J.f.N.a.T.** for finding this thread on Google and posting to it because there are still two clear sides that are in a civil war with one another. I have a difference of opinion but I mainly feel bad for all involved. I really want them all to find some peace and resolution that doesn’t land anyone else in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Noel\_Prosequi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b19c9b/32.png) [@Noel\_Prosequi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noel_Prosequi)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-i-grew-up-with-was-falsely-convicted-of-capital-murder-is-there-anything-you-can-do-to-help/604789/113 "2016-11-08T13:51:53Z")
**Shagnasty** , have there been any further developments - appeals, concessions, sentence, etc - since the conviction in March 2016? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-i-grew-up-with-was-falsely-convicted-of-capital-murder-is-there-anything-you-can-do-to-help/604789.md?page=5)