# "A man should never hit a woman." OK to hit a man? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 13, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384 "2014-09-13T13:20:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/21 "2014-09-14T00:26:59Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Look at the video and tell me what you think. He punched her after she ineffectively tried and may have succeeded in punching him a couple of times, the second after he retreated. He punched her in self-defense, not nearly as hard as he could have. Take a look. If I’m on a jury, he gets acquitted if that is the evidence. > > As much as I’d like to jump on the bandwagon, the truth is that this isn’t a criminal act on his part, it is on her part, and everybody is wrong. He should not have been suspended at all. > > I’d like to think that I’d maybe push her away and wouldn’t do this, but I wasn’t there. He hit her after being attacked a couple of times. Not hard. She was knocked unconscious. > > It is not cool for her to have attacked him. He was just defending himself. It’s like that time I was at Target and a four year old wasn’t watching where he was going and ran right into me. I of course kicked him across the aisle into some dishware. He broke his arm or his spine or something, but it was his fault since he attacked me first. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/22 "2014-09-14T00:29:37Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > He was not acting in self-defense because his response was far out of proportion to the threat. The fact that he wasn’t concerned about his own safety is further supported by his actions immediately after knocking her out: he nonchalantly hauled her limp body out of the elevator, like he was just trying to dump her somewhere. > > That shows to me that he was simply tired of dealing with her and got angry, not concerned for his safety. Have you seen the video? He wasn’t supposed to hit her. But when you repeatedly are attacked, extending your fist, which is what happened, is probably going to happen eventually. I’ll agree that he doesn’t know his own strength, but the video doesn’t show him putting anything behind it. He stepped back and she kept attacking him, he extended his fist and she falls like a sack of potatoes. It isn’t all out of proportion. He gave her about the lightest hit a guy like him could have given. Look at the video. I’m not at all happy that I have to call this one like I see it, but he isn’t in the wrong here. This isn’t an “I’m afraid for my life” swing, but a tiny “stop chasing and hitting me” defensive punch. Look at the video. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/23 "2014-09-14T00:29:40Z")
I wouldn’t say never. If I saw a woman laying into to a frail elderly person, kicking someone prone on the ground, or brutalising a child, I’d intervene. There is a huge difference between fighting and domestic violence. Being trapped in a life of fear and being smashed up by someone who is meant to love you is tragic. Someone who abuses their partner is utter scum. I abhor such people, and am glad that at least the female half of DV victims is getting some support. I only hope that male victims will soon be no longer treated like it is their fault or they are any less of a man for seeking help. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/24 "2014-09-14T00:31:16Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > It’s like that time I was at Target and a four year old wasn’t watching where he was going and ran right into me. I of course kicked him across the aisle into some dishware. He broke his arm or his spine or something, but it was his fault since he attacked me first. It’s like that time you were at Toys R’ Us and your girl friend kept taking swings at your and you gave her a rabbit punch back and she collapsed. Look at the video. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/25 "2014-09-14T00:31:38Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Have you seen the video? He wasn’t supposed to hit her. But when you repeatedly are attacked, extending your fist, which is what happened, is probably going to happen eventually. I’ll agree that he doesn’t know his own strength, but the video doesn’t show him putting anything behind it. He stepped back and she kept attacking him, he extended his fist and she falls like a sack of potatoes. It isn’t all out of proportion. He gave her about the lightest hit a guy like him could have given. Look at the video. I’m not at all happy that I have to call this one like I see it, but he isn’t in the wrong here. This isn’t an “I’m afraid for my life” swing, but a tiny “stop chasing and hitting me” defensive punch. Look at the video. Have watched the the video. Still believe you’re utterly wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/26 "2014-09-14T00:36:44Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Have you seen the video? He wasn’t supposed to hit her. But when you repeatedly are attacked, extending your fist, which is what happened, is probably going to happen eventually. I’ll agree that he doesn’t know his own strength, but the video doesn’t show him putting anything behind it. He stepped back and she kept attacking him, he extended his fist and she falls like a sack of potatoes. It isn’t all out of proportion. He gave her about the lightest hit a guy like him could have given. Look at the video. I’m not at all happy that I have to call this one like I see it, but he isn’t in the wrong here. This isn’t an “I’m afraid for my life” swing, but a tiny “stop chasing and hitting me” defensive punch. Look at the video. You can’t expect someone as dainty as an NFL running back to get hit by his girlfriend and not defend himself. The poor dear was probably terrified. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/27 "2014-09-14T00:38:19Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Have watched the the video. Still believe you’re utterly wrong. Yeah, but you aren’t going to hit me over it, are you? I’d love to be utterly wrong on this one. If this woman did that to me in the elevator, or you, I wouldn’t blame someone for doing the same thing. What are you supposed to do? Stand there and take it? Curl up in a ball? I suppose putting one’s arm out would be acceptable, provided the arm goes out slowly. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/28 "2014-09-14T00:42:47Z")
I actually gave multiple options that fall short of a left hook in my reply before. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/29 "2014-09-14T00:45:05Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > You can’t expect someone as dainty as an NFL running back to get hit by his girlfriend and not defend himself. The poor dear was probably terrified. Is the point you are making that he has no right to defend himself because he isn’t dainty? He’s pretty clearly angered and emotional. She is trying to start a fight. And it works. We have a lot of time here to consider our responses, he had about half a second. He retreated and she came after him. Plan A did not work. Plan B was to put his fist out. Your option was that he should have remained clam and taken her physical abuse. That isn’t how humans do things. Your earlier example of the kid at Toys R Us indicates a dispassionate stranger “attacked” by a toddler he doesn’t know. That isn’t the situation. This is a woman he is having an argument with that is already under his skin. He retreats and she follows up by chasing and attacking him. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/30 "2014-09-14T00:47:15Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Have you seen the video? He wasn’t supposed to hit her. But when you repeatedly are attacked, extending your fist, which is what happened, is probably going to happen eventually. I’ll agree that he doesn’t know his own strength, but the video doesn’t show him putting anything behind it. He stepped back and she kept attacking him, he extended his fist and she falls like a sack of potatoes. It isn’t all out of proportion. He gave her about the lightest hit a guy like him could have given. Look at the video. I’m not at all happy that I have to call this one like I see it, but he isn’t in the wrong here. This isn’t an “I’m afraid for my life” swing, but a tiny “stop chasing and hitting me” defensive punch. Look at the video. I can’t agree. His response to a feeble attack, by a woman that he intimately knows, is to “extend his fist” and knock her out cold. It is textbook excessive self-defense and therefore unlawful. In using any type of self-defense one must only use the type of force necessary to repel the attack. He is orders of magnitude stronger than this woman and can repel her pushes and slaps by far less than punching her. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/31 "2014-09-14T00:48:25Z")
Adults are supposed to have self control, too. When they lose their cool and cold cock someone out there are consequences for that too. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/32 "2014-09-14T00:49:15Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Is the point you are making that he has no right to defend himself because he isn’t dainty? He’s pretty clearly angered and emotional. She is trying to start a fight. And it works. We have a lot of time here to consider our responses, he had about half a second. He retreated and she came after him. Plan A did not work. Plan B was to put his fist out. Your option was that he should have remained clam and taken her physical abuse. That isn’t how humans do things. Your earlier example of the kid at Toys R Us indicates a dispassionate stranger “attacked” by a toddler he doesn’t know. That isn’t the situation. This is a woman he is having an argument with that is already under his skin. He retreats and she follows up by chasing and attacking him. I don’t think it’s ever OK for a man to punch his girlfriend in the face in that situation. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/33 "2014-09-14T00:50:50Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Self defense should come from a reasonable fear of bring harmed. Had she been significantly muscular or stronger, armed, or multiple attackers he’d be right to use more force. Her threat was small and he could have simply turned his back, held her in a body hold, pressed the button for the next floor and stepped off. > > The measure is not if he beat her as hard as he could have. His response was so violently over the top to be negligent. Given that this was also someone he purported to love, it is revolting in its callous disregard for her well being. He didn’t do any of these very thoughtful things. He retreated and threw a punch without his weight behind it. Your responses are very considered. Have you been in this three second situation and done just that? That would have been nice. But that isn’t what people do. The point I made was that if you look at the video, you can see that he does not “beat her as hard as he could have” or even a portion of it. He doesn’t lean into it at all. Sometimes, when you pick a fight with a much larger human being and throw a few punches, a punch will be directed your way. I’m going to agree with Mr. and Mrs. Rice that this is being blown all out of proportion for the entertainment of the masses. Women, and nobody for that matter, should be beat up, but this isn’t the poster case for it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/34 "2014-09-14T00:54:20Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > I don’t think it’s ever OK for a man to punch his girlfriend in the face in that situation. I agree with that in principle. I’ve never hit a girlfriend and I’d like to think I never would. But I’ve never been in that situation. If I had a girlfriend that hit me, I’d like to think that I’d ask that it never happen again. And if it did, it would be an ended relationship. But I haven’t been in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/35 "2014-09-14T00:55:55Z")
Nope, still going to disagree. Cold cocking your fiancée is virtually inexcusable regardless how provoked. He has to live with the consequence of his shitty behavior. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/36 "2014-09-14T01:02:04Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Nope, still going to disagree. Cold cocking your fiancée is virtually inexcusable regardless how provoked. He has to live with the consequence of his shitty behavior. He certainly does have to live with the consequences. And good correct usage of fiancée. I think that he folded on the legal consequences, and he will have to bear the social and financial consequences. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/37 "2014-09-14T01:12:33Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I am not condoning what Ray Rice did in any way shape or form, but don’t elevators have safety features that keep the doors from closing on a person or object? The doors have “bumpers” in them that sense resistance and immediately open the doors. Many is the time I’ve stuck my arm between the closing doors in an effort to catch an elevator at the last second, or a passenger in the elevator will hold the doors open for me. Those sensors fail fairly often. And some don’t have bumpers, but three sensors at various heights, like knee, waist and shoulder heights which wouldn’t have caught her feet in that position. It’s been a while (early 90’s I think) but I once watched a man stick his briefcase into the doors and they closed on it. then the briefcase slowly rose and was crushed against the top of the doorway. The elevator then stopped (some sort of emergency lever kicked in I guess) and the people were stuck for over an hour before they got it going again to let them off. Please don’t do that with your hands anymore. It’s not worth the risk, however unlikely. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Have you seen the video? > > . . . > > He gave her about the lightest hit a guy like him could have given. Look at the video. I’m not at all happy that I have to call this one like I see it, but he isn’t in the wrong here. This isn’t an “I’m afraid for my life” swing, but a tiny “stop chasing and hitting me” defensive punch. Look at the video. First of all, have you watched the beginning of the video? Because I see a woman trying to get away and being pursued. We can’t know what is being said but she looks like she is trying to get away from the argument. And I call absolute, utter BS on the idea that he was incapable of a gentler punch/action. Are you saying that every time he taps a ketchup bottle he crushes it? When he closes the refrigerator door does he break the handle every time? Does he rip his gums off brushing his teeth? He’s a professional athlete; he has muscle control and coordination. And seriously, if you did ever have “good reason” to hit your girlfriend, and you did, and she went down _like that_, are you telling me you wouldn’t drop to your knees in terror at what you had done? Gently stroke her face an sob upon realizing that she had whacked her head after the punch and possible injured her neck? Wouldn’t you yell for help and stand by her until an ambulance could arrive?!? ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/38 "2014-09-14T01:17:21Z")
In case you are sincere in believing that he “had” to punch her, [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ5Zduts1G4) will show you how a real man reacts, and another man gently restrains, when a smaller person gets out of control. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/39 "2014-09-14T01:22:08Z")
And actually, the more I watch the RR video, the less I see her attacking him. She moved toward him but I don’t see her hands go up at all. ---
**Author:** ![Killing\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/76d3ee/32.png) [@Killing\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Killing_Time)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/40 "2014-09-14T01:29:47Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > You can’t expect someone as dainty as an NFL running back to get hit by his girlfriend and not defend himself. The poor dear was probably terrified. As much as I would like a world where I could wail away on anyone as much as I want, and he would have to just stand there and take it because he’s bigger than me, even I can see that this isn’t very good legal precedent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384.md?page=3)