# "A man should never hit a woman." OK to hit a man? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 13, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384 "2014-09-13T13:20:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Killing\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/76d3ee/32.png) [@Killing\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Killing_Time)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/41 "2014-09-14T01:31:36Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > In case you are sincere in believing that he “had” to punch her, [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ5Zduts1G4) will show you how a real man reacts, and another man gently restrains, when a smaller person gets out of control. Did ANYONE say he “had” to punch her? I must have missed that. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/42 "2014-09-14T01:33:21Z")
So, this NFL running back has never fended off someone trying to grab him without knocking them unconscious? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/43 "2014-09-14T01:35:00Z")
> [@Killing\_Time](#): > > Did ANYONE say he “had” to punch her? I must have missed that. It’s been suggested that punching her was a virtually unavoidable response. So in that sense he “had” to, in that he no other reasonable option in the specific circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/44 "2014-09-14T02:58:21Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > It’s been suggested that punching her was a virtually unavoidable response. So in that sense he “had” to, in that he no other reasonable option in the specific circumstances. Nobody has said it was a “virtually unavoidable response”. That is a straw man argument. And nobody has argued it was “reasonable” as in he thought about it. He didn’t have time to. Another straw man. When people months later after much reflection isn’t really relevant. We can get all high and mighty and say that we have never done such a thing and never would do such a thing, I’m sure we would all agree that we should be good social critters and go that route. But when the half-second in time is yours and another person’s in an elevator are you going to send a man to prison over his response there? Or just socially condemn him and pretend that no one in their right mind would do that? Even my social condemnation is somewhat limited here. You don’t punch another person and you don’t chase them across a limited closed space to hit them again. Getting hit in such a circumstance is an expected outcome. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/45 "2014-09-14T03:09:53Z")
Men shouldn’t be hitting women. Women shouldn’t be hitting men. Men shouldn’t be hitting men. Women shouldn’t be hitting women. No one should hit old people. No one should beat animals. Self-defense is one thing, but don’t make it ridiculous. Go with the least amount of force necessary. None of us is Rambo. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/46 "2014-09-14T03:10:28Z")
Yes, society does judge people on making the wrong choice in a split second. Society holds people to a certain standard, and cold cocking a smaller, weaker person, even on impulse, is not consequence free. Nor should it be. I also think you have a skewed view of what’s going on in that elevator. As for the strawman you think I’m making, you are the one bending over so backwards to claim it’s so unreasonable to have expected RR to be able to have exhibited any self control, that yes, it comes damn close to saying he had virtually no choice in the matter. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/47 "2014-09-14T03:11:42Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Yes, society does judge people on making the wrong choice in a split second. Society holds people to a certain standard, and cold cocking a smaller, weaker person, even on impulse, is not consequence free. Nor should it be. > > I also think you have a skewed view of what’s going on in that elevator. > > As for the strawman you think I’m making, you are the one bending over so backwards to claim it’s so unreasonable to have expected RR to be able to have exhibited any self control, that yes, it comes damn close to saying he had virtually no choice in the matter. Huh? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/48 "2014-09-14T03:12:53Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Huh? It’s a shame my meaning eludes you. I’m sure you think it’s clever to use the reply I made to your nonsensical post in your pit thread against me. What a point you just scored. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/49 "2014-09-14T03:23:39Z")
At least I support the right of self-defense when hit. [- YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hb4ofSj38I) ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/50 "2014-09-14T03:56:12Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I am not condoning what Ray Rice did in any way shape or form, but don’t elevators have safety features that keep the doors from closing on a person or object? Just for the last 150 years, or so. Whoever is crying about that is just full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Killing\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/76d3ee/32.png) [@Killing\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Killing_Time)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/51 "2014-09-14T04:03:42Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > It’s been suggested that punching her was a virtually unavoidable response. So in that sense he “had” to, in that he no other reasonable option in the specific circumstances. O.K., I missed it then. Who was it who said there was “no other reasonable option”? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/52 "2014-09-14T04:07:57Z")
IvoryTowerDenizen did as an invented straw argument attributed to the people she disagrees with. ---
**Author:** ![Killing\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/76d3ee/32.png) [@Killing\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Killing_Time)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/53 "2014-09-14T04:21:48Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > First of all, have you watched the beginning of the video? Because I see a woman trying to get away and being pursued. How do you figure? She’s walking TOWARDS him at the beginning of the video. You don’t normally walk towards someone you’re trying to get away from, do you? In fact she walks up to him and hits him, is what she does. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/54 "2014-09-14T04:25:53Z")
> [@Killing\_Time](#): > > How do you figure? She’s walking TOWARDS him at the beginning of the video. You don’t normally walk towards someone you’re trying to get away from, do you? In fact she walks up to him and hits him, is what she does. Referring to the facts isn’t allowed when dealing with generalities like “a man should never hit a woman.” There are no exceptions. No facts allowed. No exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Killing\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/76d3ee/32.png) [@Killing\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Killing_Time)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/55 "2014-09-14T04:34:12Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Referring to the facts isn’t allowed when dealing with generalities like “a man should never hit a woman.” There are no exceptions. No facts allowed. No exceptions. Oh, right. I forgot. I was told in another thread that since it wasn’t Great Debates, I wasn’t allowed to use logic in a “soft” discussion. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/56 "2014-09-14T04:38:28Z")
> [@Killing\_Time](#): > > Oh, right. I forgot. I was told in another thread that since it wasn’t Great Debates, I wasn’t allowed to use logic in a “soft” discussion. Well, we are farting ignorance and undermining critical thinking skills since 1973. General principle is that no man may ever hit a woman. No exceptions allowed, and certainly not if she is attacking him while he is retreating after the first attack. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/57 "2014-09-14T20:16:43Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > The random male would not be dependent upon Rice either. Chances are good that she had no place to stay, no one to call, no way to get home -or indeed home to go to- absent Rice in her life. As such, she went much further in the argument than a stranger could ever be reasonably motivated to do. Well, she has a family who have been in the media recently, and there are many government-funded womens’ shelters in every major city. > [@](#): > > I also think it’s reasonable to state that Rice is capable of more than one strength of punch. He could slap her back just as gently as she hit him. He could push, or restrain, he has a myriad of choices here outside a simple “punch in the face as hard as you can.” Even with a random male, it’s not necessary to pull out a bazooka in response to a Swiss army knife. He clearly didn’t shift his centre of mass, and hit left-handed, that was nowhere near as hard as he could have hit her. > [@](#): > > He had a right to respond when attacked. He had a responsibility to respond appropriately. > > For those who haven’t viewed the footage, his subsequent actions are also deplorable. He half drags her limp body out of the elevator, leaving her feet in the path of the door to retrieve her shoe. he continues to try and drag her until stopped by what appears to be a security guard. > > Upon being confronted by the guard he lifts and shakes her, and forces her into a sitting position where she appears to be groggy but coming around. He is still placing her throughout in a dangerous spot with no regard at all for the fact that the doors could close and harm her. He shows no sign of concern for her well being, despite her having hit her head and her neck having been snapped back by the railing on the the way down. By moving her at all he could have exacerbated serious injury to her spine. It’s hard to imagine a professional athlete not knowing that first rule of traumatic injury. > > Utterly disgusting. So he’s not very bright, unless you’re suggesting that he intentionally tried to paralyse her. That isn’t how doors work. Looked like he was freaking out to me. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/58 "2014-09-14T21:00:25Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > What are you supposed to do? Stand there and take it? Curl up in a ball? … If that’s what is likely to result in no one getting significantly harmed, then, yes, those are perfectly reasonable options. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Is the point you are making that he has no right to defend himself because he isn’t dainty? … Unless you have a reasonably cognizable fear of harm, then you’re not defending yourself. Defense doesn’t exist if you know that what your fiancée is doing can’t actually hurt you. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/59 "2014-09-14T21:02:39Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Well, we are farting ignorance and undermining critical thinking skills since 1973. General principle is that no man may ever hit a woman. No exceptions allowed, and certainly not if she is attacking him while he is retreating after the first attack. Gee, I guess you missed the three quick examples I gave where he could be justified using the force he did on a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384/60 "2014-09-14T21:03:57Z")
> [@Killing\_Time](#): > > Did ANYONE say he “had” to punch her? I must have missed that. If he didn’t have to hit her to prevent her from harming him, then it was not self defense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-man-should-never-hit-a-woman-ok-to-hit-a-man/698384.md?page=4)