A man walks into a bar

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

OK. The Occidental College case happened in California. The girl was 17, and in California, the age of consent is 18, so in the state where this happened, it was statutory rape. That is a particular aspect of this case that exists because it happened where it happened which would not exist had it happened in, say, Indiana, where the age of consent is 16. It is important to bear this in mind.

Second, colleges can do what they want. They are free to have codes of conduct that are over and above the law. For example, the dorms at Indiana University are dry, and that includes the graduate student dorms where everyone is over 21. IU is free to expel a student for drinking in his dorm room, even if he is 23 and has legally obtained alcohol that he would be free to drink in some other location.

Schools are, for that matter, free to have “No sex whatsoever” policies, and enforce them, and for all I know, there are Christian colleges that do this. School are free to have dress codes, and expel students who refuse to conform to them. A school can expel a student for doing things that “defame” the school, even if no criminal charges are filed, and it’s happened. I know of an entire fraternity that was expelled for overtly racist acts, although in the case I’m thinking of, the students were given an option to reapply after two years, so it was something in between an expulsion and a suspension, because they could come back, but they couldn’t automatically come back, just reapply. The fraternity itself was permanently barred, though. Not a single thing that any student did was illegal, just grossly inappropriate.

So in short, the male student was not charged with a crime, and probably could have been, meaning he didn’t “have the book thrown at him,” but he was expelled, and that is up to the school, which is free to act over and above the law.

22

bolding mine Taking that to its extreme, it sounds like an excellent defense. Everyone knows people go to a bar to find someone to have sex with, and s/he was in a bar, ergo, no rape.

Is that really why a man goes to a bar?!

23

He was 18, she was one month under 18 so he could have been charged with a misdemeanor.

“Free to act” doesn’t mean their actions are right and/or without consequences.

24

Knowing the full details now… what happened to this kid sucked, but I’m not really sure what else the school was supposed to do, knowing the kid had legally committed a crime. I suspect they were concerned about their own liability.

Campus rules can be really fucking arbitrary. I remember at my college, the consequences for being caught with weed were vastly different depending on if you were caught by campus police (oh boy so much trouble) or city police (they did not care.)

This was in a city that features an annual ‘‘Hash Bash’’ in which people literally congregate in masses on Central Campus in order to smoke weed.

25

Yeah. Indiana University and it’s freaking “dry campus” rules result in some things that seem inconsistent, but on the other hand, students are aware of what consequences will be when they engage.

In other words, someone well over 21, and living in a graduate dorm cannot drink in his own room, and if he does and is caught, say, because some joker happens to pull a fire alarm when the student is inebriated, he will probably be thrown out of student housing for the first incident. Since nearly all grad students living on campus are foreign students who don’t have other options, because they have financial aid that will pay the university for housing, but won’t pay an off-campus landlord, they are screwed.

However, if a freshman, who is living on campus, because IU has a requirement that freshmen live either on campus or with family, is busted for underage drinking off-campus, and actually charged with a crime, and even spends a night in jail, and pays a fine, possibly getting probation or community service if he did anything while he was drunk, like minor incidents of vandalism (say, tagging a wall in an alleyway), the university isn’t going to care at all. Unless the night in jail caused him to miss an exam and he asks for a retake, no one on campus cares a whit. (Extraordinary acts, like breaking storefront windows and looting might cause the school to take notice, though.)

CAVEAT: I have not lived in Bloomington, IN for a few years, and have not taken a class at IU for many years. If the policy has changed in the last few years, good, but my post reflects the policy the last time I had much to do with campus life.

26

If he didn’t consent, he was raped. If he did, then it was consensual. Intoxication can make it impossible to consent, but doesn’t always, no matter the gender. Having sex with a drunk person is rape if they didn’t consent or were incapable of consent, and is not rape if they did consent.

It’s not terribly difficult.

27

My campus was the opposite. The administration had to formally tell local law enforcement to stay off campus unless invited and refrain from busting our students.

28

bolding mine But what does consent mean? A stated Yes, not saying no…? In the other thread about the swimmer rapist, he claimed she was consenting because she rubbed his back. Who knows.

29

Consent is clear and unambiguous – “yes &$#% me now!” or unmistakable physical encouragement, or something else that is extremely clear. It’s really not hard to make sure that one’s partner is definitely consenting. It can be as simple as “are you okay with this?” and “yes!”.

30

Did this happen in late December back in '63?