# A Matriarchal Society **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 2, 2006, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178 "2006-09-02T07:11:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/41 "2006-09-03T08:29:31Z")
[QUOTE=fessie] What makes you think it isn’t? [/QUOTE] Well I’ll be… :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/42 "2006-09-03T17:16:33Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I recall an episode of [_Sliders_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sliders) – our heroes land in an America where women monopolize all the political and economic power (apart from that, not much is different – there’s no hint that this society has any less war or crime than ours). Rembrandt Brown hooks up with a female business executive who treats him – well, pretty much the way an arrogant male exec would treat his flavor-of-the-week girlfriend. [/QUOTE] ST: TNG did something similar once, too. Except it was an alien planet instead of an alternate earth. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/43 "2006-09-03T18:09:44Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] I, as many of you know, am a neopagan hippie chick. We spend a lot of time extolling the virtues of a utopian matriarchy that probably never existed. [/QUOTE] Gotta love self-deprecating humor. It helps to keep things in perspective and not take oursleves too seriously. 🙂 As for the OP, like all these “what if…” debates, they pose an impossible situation, bceause they assume all other things stay the same. If, like chimps, there is an inherent tendancy for males to ascend to power in our species, then we’d not only need women to be in power, we’d also need men to be different from what they are now. If, OTOH, men and women are truely equal in temperament and desire/capability for power, then nothing would change except the gender of our leaders. ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/44 "2006-09-04T13:33:17Z")
A few questions/observations, **chowder**. I’m going to take a slight risk and say that: [ul] [li]You don’t have sisters.[/li][li]You’ve never seen women have a real fight.[/li][li]You’ve never worked in an all-female office.[/li][li]If you have a long-term girlfriend, you tone out her stories about her day.[/li][/ul] If you’d had those experiences, I can virtually guarantee you would not have this rosy view of women. They are every bit as nasty as men, they just do their violence in slightly different ways and for different motivations. I was the oldest of my siblings, I’m a guy, and I still wouldn’t have wanted to get into a real fight with either of my sisters for most of my childhood, even the little one; she bit. My parents had to replace a door that the older one (M., age 11) took a steak knife to when the little one (S., age 8) pissed her off and hid in the bathroom to escape her wrath. They also had to fill in the hole in the wall from when one of them hucked the knife block at the other’s head, with the knives still in it. In addition to the direct violence, both of them would find ways of attacking each other socially. A favorite trick of M.'s was to provoke S. into doing something physical in retaliation for some nasty remark, preferably something that would leave a mark that would last long enough, and then tell Mom or Dad and get S. in trouble. That’s the _tame_ stuff. And I was definitely not the only boy who had nasty sister stories to tell when I was in school. I saw a fight between two girls at school that consisted of attempted eye gouging, raking flesh, knees to the gut, kicking when one of them was down, pulling out clumps of hair, and resulted in the loser getting her head pounded on the concrete in a move reminiscent of a chimp in full rage trying to get to the meat of a coconut. I’m fairly certain she ended up in the hospital for observation if nothing else. The intent was to cause maximum damage, especially in a way that would be permanent and disabling. She boasted as teachers dragged her away, “I gave that bitch a scar!” and I saw her licking the girl’s blood off her talons with a feral grin. I shit you not. I am not even exaggerating her actions in the slightest. Then, there are my experiences working in an all-female office. There were 10 women, all around 35 to 50-something, and they managed to prove almost every single stereotype of an all-female office to be accurate and true, at least in my experience. They constantly undercut each other, were consistently two-faced, tried to recruit others to their faction, gossiped, whispered rumors, bitched, complained and moaned, and sabotaged. You name the negative female behavior, they exhibited it. You always had to listen to how something was phrased because one woman in particular was very, very good at insulting someone while ostensibly giving complements; the others were less adept but working to improve the skill. The nastiness was mostly hidden, only surfacing when whoever it was felt like she had the upper hand and could partially express her true feelings. Most of the time, I was able to keep at the fringes of the whole thing, but it took constant maneuvering to even stay neutral and uninvolved. I would have _welcomed_ nice clean open warfare with guts strung from light fixtures and blood-smeared walls. At least it would have been a break from the constant vigilance. It was the worst working experience of my life. For some reason, women seem to need an arch-enemy. I have never had a girlfriend who did not have some woman she complained about and had rivalries with. Usually it’s someone at work, but it could be anyone she comes into contact with on a regular basis. The rivalry could be over status, or the other woman’s appearance, or behavior, but something about one of the females she’s with will be a topic of monolo . . . er, “conversation” on an almost daily basis. Men usually don’t invent enemies. Women seem to thrive when they have them and will create one based minor disagreements if they don’t have one yet. [Chris Rock]She’s trying to destroy me! What are you talking about? You work at JC Penny’s gift wrap.[/Chris Rock] One of the reasons men don’t trust women in politics because of experiences like this. Men can often posture and yell and end conflict with a little shoving around. Women will _destroy_ their enemies using any available weapon with as little risk to themselves as possible. A woman president wouldn’t go with the usual Bigger Dick Foreign Policy of building bombs and missiles. I would expect her to de-emphasize conventional weapons in favor of chemical and biological warfare, regardless of legality, and I wouldn’t expect her to give any warning to her enemies before she attacks either. That’s not to say a male president **wouldn’t** do these things, but unless our entire society drastically changed overnight with attendant changes in male and female psychology, those would probably be a woman’s first choices, not her last resorts. And diplomacy would be more ruthless and subtle than it has ever been. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/45 "2006-09-04T14:41:56Z")
**Steel** I have one sister and I have seen women having a fight (just once tho’) The fight itself lasted about 1 minute, if that, couple of wild blows, kicks that missed and that was about it apart from the screaming and cursing. Having read through your post all I can say is “Boy am I glad we don’t live in a matriarchal society” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/46 "2006-09-04T16:12:59Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] Having read through your post all I can say is “Boy am I glad we don’t live in a matriarchal society” [/QUOTE] Huh. Having read through his post all I can say is, “Huh.” I have 3 brothers, 2 sisters, lived in an all-girl dorm and work in a female-dominated workplace and my experiences have been nothing like that. Not even in the same universe. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/47 "2006-09-04T18:22:15Z")
[QUOTE=Sleel] For some reason, women seem to need an arch-enemy. I have never had a girlfriend who did not have some woman she complained about and had rivalries with. Usually it’s someone at work, but it could be anyone she comes into contact with on a regular basis. The rivalry could be over status, or the other woman’s appearance, or behavior, but something about one of the females she’s with will be a topic of monolo . . . er, “conversation” on an almost daily basis. Men usually don’t invent enemies. Women seem to thrive when they have them and will create one based minor disagreements if they don’t have one yet. [Chris Rock]She’s trying to destroy me! What are you talking about? You work at JC Penny’s gift wrap.[/Chris Rock] One of the reasons men don’t trust women in politics because of experiences like this. Men can often posture and yell and end conflict with a little shoving around. Women will _destroy_ their enemies using any available weapon with as little risk to themselves as possible. [/QUOTE] I’m lucky my wife doesn’t see her arch-enemy (one of my ex-girlfriends) very often–but once when we were still in the same town (thankfully no longer the case), my wife and I were coming home from someplace and I had to throw on the emergency brake, because she saw said ex in a crosswalk alone in a deserted neighborhood late at night and was gunning the engine. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/48 "2006-09-04T20:01:36Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] I have 3 brothers, 2 sisters, lived in an all-girl dorm and work in a female-dominated workplace and my experiences have been nothing like that. Not even in the same universe. [/QUOTE] Which is the answer to the thread: Men aren’t from Mars, women aren’t from Venus. We’re all from Earth, and we’re not all the same. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/49 "2006-09-04T21:09:31Z")
[QUOTE=Zeriel] …my wife and I were coming home from someplace and I had to throw on the emergency brake, because she saw said ex in a crosswalk alone in a deserted neighborhood late at night and was gunning the engine. [/QUOTE] Psychos like your wife come in all genders. I would recommend, however, you might want to think about finding a new one if that’s how she deals with her anger. > [@chowder](#): > > Having read through your post all I can say is “Boy am I glad we don’t live in a matriarchal society” I’m just glad I don’t live in Sleel’s world of psycho-bitches. All these stories are great, however, I don’t think you can make judgements about womens ability to lead based on the behavior of what are obviously the most unstable examples of women you can find. From my experience, women in positions of authority tend to be more consensus building then men. Men tend to be more hierarchial. Women are more “we should do this” while men are more “you there..go do this”. Men seem to be better at informal networking than women, hence the “old boys club”. You see a lot more internal pettiness within sororities than you do in fraternities. Women in this country may control 50% of the vote, but they control 100% of the vagina. ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/50 "2006-09-05T01:51:52Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] I’m just glad I don’t live in Sleel’s world of psycho-bitches. [/QUOTE] They’re not all like that, but one or two examples is all it takes to refute the Shining Angel of Cooperation image that **chowder** was holding. I just happened to have several examples in my life. I’ve noticed that all-male or all-female groups are the absolute worst for anything. Whatever negative behavior exists gets amplified and the group dynamics get more violent. At that office, my position was a new one, so I was dropped into the middle of a pre-existing dynamic. The presence of even a single male (me) was enough to change things a little bit. Well, they’d either mellowed or I’d gotten used to it. The division eventually got dissolved and everyone had to go looking for new positions. Individually, they’d probably be better people than as a group. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/51 "2006-09-05T22:28:28Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] Let’s face it guys, women are by and large less power/religion fixated than men. They have a higher regard for the sanctity of human life than we do, after all they brought us into the world so why would they want to get rid of us. Differences between countries could be ironed out around a table over scones and cream with strawberry jam and cups of tea from fine china cups instead of sabre rattling and mindless threats. After the meeting was over and having sorted it all out they then could compare the latest tupperware containers and browse through Vogue magazine or some other literary gem. After all this it’s back to the office, shoes off slippers on and a night watching TV. [/QUOTE] This, of course, being exactly what happened under Queen Isabella of Spain or Queen Mary I of England or Catherine the Great of Russia. Differences between countries, groups, or individuals got ironed out over tea and scones, so there was no need for wars or executions or murders. In particular, nothing bad ever happened to anyone over their choice of religion, or because they were in the way of a woman who wanted power… ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/52 "2006-09-06T02:34:57Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] Huh. Having read through his post all I can say is, “Huh.” I have 3 brothers, 2 sisters, lived in an all-girl dorm and work in a female-dominated workplace and my experiences have been nothing like that. Not even in the same universe. [/QUOTE] It often isn’t that far off. My wife manages a mostly female sales staff that many people are just plain scared of. I must admit that my wife is hyper-aggressive in that way as well but she has to work hard to reel them in and stop the fighting at least once a week. You can learn new words just by walking through the office. I went to graduate school and ended up in an all female lab. There had never been another male there. I lasted a year and I still consider it one of the most traumatic events of my life. I actually had another nightmares about it last night and it is 10 years later. The excessive aggression and relentless abuse wasn’t something I was prepared for. I have worked for a few companies that are heavily weighted towards female employees. I am working for one now and I consult for several different groups that have mostly female management. It has been mostly good experiences but I have no idea where the idea that females sit around and chat while the men are aggressive. That is not even close to true with my mother or my wife or the female management that I work with. Most of them can be polite and pleasant at times but the aggression certainly comes out the first sign that it may be appropriate. I have worked in places with mostly men as well. I actually find them more laid back and less aggressive except for some specimens. I don’t think that is ideal either. I will go with a healthy male-female mix for the good of all. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/53 "2006-09-06T06:23:39Z")
[QUOTE=Anne Neville] This, of course, being exactly what happened under Queen Isabella of Spain or Queen Mary I of England or Catherine the Great of Russia. Differences between countries, groups, or individuals got ironed out over tea and scones, so there was no need for wars or executions or murders. In particular, nothing bad ever happened to anyone over their choice of religion, or because they were in the way of a woman who wanted power… [/QUOTE] Isabella,Mary and Catherine had TV and kept it from us men?. Bastards 😛 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/54 "2006-09-06T06:35:23Z")
In my experience, women don’t resort to violence quickly. But when they do, they skip right over the “let’s posture and pose and strut” part that men labor so lovingly over and go straight to the hurting. If a man gets in your face, you may be able to get out of it without injury if you’re willing to cede apparent dominance. If a woman gets in your face, you’re getting cut, because she’s already past that stage before she even makes the decision to confront you. Generally speaking, goes without saying, void where prohibited… ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/55 "2006-09-06T13:08:03Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] How would it be if the world was ruled by women?.. [/QUOTE] Within one generation men would be back in control. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/56 "2006-09-06T14:02:56Z")
As a feminist, I think the OP was shallow and sexist. But if you’re serious about how would a government be run if women held the top positions? How different would it necessarily be? The exigencies of running a nation-state set up and structured as one of many in a system of nation-states is going to shape public policy and administration much more than the gender of the administrators. According to my feminist principles, as I understand them, I want to live in a society and a polity where one gender does not dominate over other(s). Overthrowing one ruling class only to replace it with another ruling class is not progress. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/57 "2006-09-06T17:00:27Z")
Why do you consider my OP shallow and sexist 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/58 "2006-09-06T17:08:06Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] Why do you consider my OP shallow and sexist 😕 [/QUOTE] I’m not **Johanna** , but let me tell you why I think it’s sexist: You’re stereotyping people on the basis of gender- you’re saying that all women are less violent, power-driven, and religion-driven than all men. That’s not necessarily a negative stereotype, but it is a stereotype. Not all women like fashion magazines, Tupperware, et cetera. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/59 "2006-09-06T17:16:53Z")
[QUOTE=Anne Neville] I’m not **Johanna** , but let me tell you why I think it’s sexist: You’re stereotyping people on the basis of gender- you’re saying that all women are less violent, power-driven, and religion-driven than all men. That’s not necessarily a negative stereotype, but it is a stereotype. Not all women like fashion magazines, Tupperware, et cetera. [/QUOTE] More to the point, in leadership poistions those qualities are arguably not good things. Less violent = Unable to defend us from our enemies Less Power-Driven = Unambitious… How’d she get this job in the first place? Less religion-driven = Godless heathen (if that charge wasn’t contrary to world culture) ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/60 "2006-09-06T17:16:58Z")
Good lord, I though it was shallow and sexist on purpose, like to be funny! If it wasn’t, and you don’t see why it’s shallow and sexist, I’m not sure we can explain it. :eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178.md?page=4)