# A Matriarchal Society **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 2, 2006, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178 "2006-09-02T07:11:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/61 "2006-09-06T18:06:42Z")
Positive stereotypes are still stereotypes. “All gay men have a superb fashion sense” “All Asians are excellent at math” “All African-Americans are GREAT at sports” “All women are cuddle-bunny consensus-seeker peaceniks” It’s offensive because in making the generalization, you subsume individuals into the group. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/62 "2006-09-06T18:28:56Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Positive stereotypes are still stereotypes. “All gay men have a superb fashion sense” “All Asians are excellent at math” “All African-Americans are GREAT at sports” “All women are cuddle-bunny consensus-seeker peaceniks” It’s offensive because in making the generalization, you subsume individuals into the group. [/QUOTE] Well, the difference between those examples is that many people wouldn’t consider being “cuddle-bunny consensus-seeker peaceniks” to be a positive stereotype. As for the rest; people _are_ going to stereotype you; if a positive stereotype sticks, let it. Even if you get rid of it, another will take it’s place; possibly a _negative_ stereotype. In other words, choose your battles. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/63 "2006-09-06T18:39:36Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] As for the rest; people _are_ going to stereotype you; if a positive stereotype sticks, let it. Even if you get rid of it, another will take it’s place; possibly a _negative_ stereotype. In other words, choose your battles. [/QUOTE] But positive stereotypes can hurt people, too. An Asian kid who needs help with math might have more trouble getting it than a white or black kid, because “all Asians are good at math”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/64 "2006-09-06T18:51:57Z")
[QUOTE=Anne Neville] But positive stereotypes can hurt people, too. An Asian kid who needs help with math might have more trouble getting it than a white or black kid, because “all Asians are good at math”. [/QUOTE] Fewer people than the negative ones, however. As I said, I don’t believe you _can_ get rid of stereotyping; it’s how humans are made. Damage containment is the best you can do. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/65 "2006-09-06T18:57:02Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] I don’t believe you _can_ get rid of stereotyping; it’s how humans are made. [/QUOTE] Agreed, but it’s not something we should be encouraging people to do. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/66 "2006-09-07T05:10:28Z")
Didn’t mean to judge your ideas harshly, **chowder** , it looks like you sincerely want to redress historic gender imbalances of power, and that’s commendable. It’s just that a critique which puts the blame on one gender has been tried already–men blamed Eve and by extension all women for the Fall of Man–and look where that got us. _Tu quoque_ won’t wash here. I would rather see a more peaceful and compassionate world brought about through full gender equality. If you want to support women’s advancements, by all means, welcome. For example, the [Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom - UK](http://ukwilpf.gn.apc.org/). > [@](#): > > Why Support WILPF? > By Supporting WILPF You Will Be : > > ``` > * Building women's capacities to mobilise for change in their own communities, regions and globally. > > * Supporting efforts to promote comprehensive nuclear disarmament and curb conventional weapons proliferation. > > * Promoting participation of women in processes of conflict resolution, negotiation and peace building. > > * Facilitating awareness-raising and dissemination of information on critical issues. > > * Enabling women's voices and their perspectives to be heard in arenas of policy and decision making. > > * Enhancing the capacities, resource base and strength of global organisation of women to work strategically on peace, disarmament and human rights issues. > > * Promoting alternative systems of values and knowledge based on social justice. > > ``` Nowhere do they claim that women are better than men on these issues–they’re saying that as women they have something to contribute. Please consider lending your support to something like this. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/67 "2006-09-07T05:50:15Z")
[QUOTE=Anne Neville] I’m not **Johanna** , but let me tell you why I think it’s sexist: You’re stereotyping people on the basis of gender- you’re saying that all women are less violent, power-driven, and religion-driven than all men. That’s not necessarily a negative stereotype, but it is a stereotype. Not all women like fashion magazines, Tupperware, et cetera. [/QUOTE] Not at all. If you re-read my OP I stated that **by and large** women are less power etc fixated. I did not state **all** Maybe not all women like fashion mags but again **by and large** most do, just as most men like sports mags ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/68 "2006-09-07T12:33:21Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] Maybe not all women like fashion mags but again **by and large** most do, just as most men like sports mags [/QUOTE] Actually, I doubt that. I’ve known lots of women, and only one reads fashion mags. And I refuse to consider her representative of the sex because she’s a chucklehead. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/69 "2006-09-07T20:10:33Z")
Let me recommend this [article](http://www.fredoneverything.net/Feminization.shtml) > [@](#): > > Women and men want very different things and therefore very different worlds. Men want sex, freedom, and adventure; women want security, pleasantness, and someone to care about (or for)them. Both like power. Men use it to conquer their neighbors whether in business or war, women to impose security and pleasantness. > > I do not suggest that the instinctive behavior of women is necessarily bad, nor that of men necessarily good. I do suggest that that the effects will be profound, probably irreversible, and not necessarily entirely to the liking of either sex. The question may be whether one fears most being conquered or being nicened to death. Sure, it stereotypes, but the point of the OP is asking for stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/70 "2006-09-08T12:31:28Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] Actually, I doubt that. I’ve known lots of women, and only one reads fashion mags. And I refuse to consider her representative of the sex because she’s a chucklehead. [/QUOTE] But does she take sugar on her porridge? :dubious: I used to hang out on a Brit message board named after a common female accessory, under another name (I’d’ve used it here if it hadn’t been taken). They had loads of fora: news, politics, sport, motoring, general chit-chat, and relationships. One forum had more posts than all the rest put together. Guess which. Stereotypes aren’t usually groundless or they’d never get started. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/71 "2006-09-08T12:43:05Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] But does she take sugar on her porridge? :dubious: [/QUOTE] I didn’t say she isn’t a woman, or a true woman, I said she doesn’t represent women. She’s in a severe minority amongst women I know, both for the mags and the chuckleheadedness. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/72 "2006-09-08T14:12:22Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] I didn’t say she isn’t a woman, or a true woman, I said she doesn’t represent women. She’s in a severe minority amongst women I know, both for the mags and the chuckleheadedness. [/QUOTE] That’s as may be. But how’d the fashion mags stay afloat then? (Or the glossy photo gossip mags, for that matter.) I personally doubt it’s on the male-consumer dollar. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/73 "2006-09-08T14:32:07Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] That’s as may be. But how’d the fashion mags stay afloat then? (Or the glossy photo gossip mags, for that matter.) I personally doubt it’s on the male-consumer dollar. [/QUOTE] The OP claimed that most women like fashion magazines. I doubt that most women do. I never claimed none do. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/74 "2006-09-08T21:05:16Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] Not at all. If you re-read my OP I stated that **by and large** women are less power etc fixated. I did not state **all** [/QUOTE] By and large, that’s not true, even if you didn’t say “all”. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/75 "2006-09-09T05:38:58Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] By and large, that’s not true, even if you didn’t say “all”. [/QUOTE] Well I didn’t say all did I? ---
**Author:** ![tashabot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tashabot/32/6250_2.png) [@tashabot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tashabot)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/76 "2006-09-10T22:37:04Z")
I haven’t read the rest of this thread, so pardon me if I’m repeating something someone else said. I’m female. I am all about equality; if I’m doing the same job a guy does and doing the same amount of work, we should get paid the same. However, men can be fathers and women can be mothers and neither gender can do the other. So there are obviously some differences. I can’t in good conscience call myself a feminist because nowadays feminism tends to mean “I think women are better than men,” which I can’t stand. Most women have a mean streak in them that is a lot more subtle than the brute force mean streak most men have. Women are perfectly willing to ruin another person’s life over a petty feud; I know, I’ve seen it done. Men are more likely to beat the crap out of each other, and then let bygones be bygones. Saying “The world would be better if women were in charge, because the history of the world is violent and men have always been in charge” doesn’t fly with me. I’m a big believer in the Douglas Adams theory: Anyone capable of getting themselves put in charge should in no circumstances be allowed to do so; be they male or female. And I’d rather a man be in charge than some of the women I’ve had to deal with, including myself (if I were in charge half the world would probably be dead within a week; I’ve got quite the happy trigger finger and I suspect it extends to the button for WMDs). Saying women are more maternal doesn’t mean much; women are, on the whole, maternal towards their own children, but everyone else is just everyone else, and of course they have no problem fucking someone up if they fuck with their kids. This BS about women caring more about the sanctity of life is just that. I know very few women who would have a problem killing someone if the situation called for it (and some even if it didn’t call for it). Sanctity of life exists only in people who believe in it; male or female, I’d say there’s a relatively even distribution in that belief across the board (no cite, sorry, just personal experience - has anyone ever done a study on this? Misanthropy prevalence in gender?). ~Tasha ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/77 "2006-09-10T23:08:50Z")
[QUOTE=tashabot] Saying “The world would be better if women were in charge, because the history of the world is violent and men have always been in charge” doesn’t fly with me. [/QUOTE] Another problem with blaming all of the evil in history on men because they were in charge is : Just how much _were_ they in charge ?. Men do things because their wife/daughter/lover/sister/etc asks them to all the time. We have no way of knowing at this late date if some king a thousand years ago conquered his neighbor not because he was ambitious, but because his queen was ambitious. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/78 "2006-09-11T00:06:02Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Another problem with blaming all of the evil in history on men because they were in charge is : Just how much _were_ they in charge ?. Men do things because their wife/daughter/lover/sister/etc asks them to all the time. We have no way of knowing at this late date if some king a thousand years ago conquered his neighbor not because he was ambitious, but because his queen was ambitious. [/QUOTE] I don’t think that really helps, honestly. Having it be someone else’s idea doesn’t really excuse the behavior, or else you’d be a lot more forgiving of the religious! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/79 "2006-09-11T02:21:55Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] I don’t think that really helps, honestly. Having it be someone else’s idea doesn’t really excuse the behavior, or else you’d be a lot more forgiving of the religious! 😃 [/QUOTE] It doesn’t help _men_, since it at best implies they are fools. I mainly use that argument to undercut the people who go on and on about how women are perfect little angels who would _never_ do the nasty things men have done. ---
**Author:** ![oy\_vay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/258eb7/32.png) [@oy\_vay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oy_vay)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178/80 "2006-09-11T04:11:56Z")
Personal observation. I’m male, but I have alot of female friends. Let me tell you they fight. They’re not saints. Good people usually, but not saints. Subtle little jabs. I’ve gotten so I can recognize them. Little status pyramids. Petty social jealousy. Pissed off about what something “implied”. Took me awhile to learn as I oblivious to them apparently. Now I just choose to ignore the subtle little mind games, but if I wanna push buttons I learned from the best. Women tend to fight subtly. The best way to piss those types of women off is to wrap your poke up in a compliment so they can’t outright object. Drama just isn’t fun though so best left avoided. This however is stereotype. I’ve seen women get just as in your face posturing as men, and I’ve seen women who just don’t get caught up in the drama because like their male counterparts they don’t notice it, or choose not to partake of it. Just like some men choose to walk away not out of fear but just not seeing the point of a fight, and men can get just as snotty and subtle too. Drama games are just another form of posturing. If it was the cultural norm to expect women to be aggressive like men I’d bet they’d posture outright just like guys do. The people you want in government are the ones who want to get things done, and are smart enough to not be entertained by drama games or posturing. Those come in male or female. It isn’t about gender it’s about stepping back and looking at the bigger picture. - The best leaders are those the people hardly know exist. The next best is a leader who is loved and praised. Next comes the one who is feared. The worst one is the leader that is despised. -J. H Mcdonald’s translation of the Tao Te Ching [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matriarchal-society/371178.md?page=5)