# A matter of belief and principles: reasonable tolerance (vegans) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 6, 2002, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640 "2002-08-06T17:09:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/21 "2002-08-08T13:50:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > \*\*The Church recognizes such weddings, has for years. Indeed, we were quite specifically told it would be sinful to coerce our spouses into converting. \*\* Yep, no coercion, but perhaps free conversion, from my source above: > [@](#): > > In marriages with disparity of cult the Catholic spouse has a particular task: “For the unbelieving husband is consecrated through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is consecrated through her husband.” It is a great joy for the Christian spouse and for the Church if this “consecration” should lead to the free conversion of the other spouse to the Christian faith. Sincere married love, the humble and patient practice of the family virtues, and perseverance in prayer can prepare the non-believing spouse to accept the grace of conversion. Not saying it should, but the Church holds out hope. 🙂 My mom converted to Catholicism when she was a teenager and married my father while he was still a Protestant :eek: 😉 . He converted soon after. I am a practicing Catholic and I could only marry a non-Catholic if he hadn’t made up his mind and was questioning. He would have to be willing to let me raise the kids (as many as we had naturally) Catholic and not take away from that at all and I think that’s a tall, if not impossible, order. The whole celibacy until marriage thing could really weed them out though.😉 ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/22 "2002-08-08T13:56:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WV\_Woman \* > \*\*Marriage outside the faith is a no-no with Catholicism \*\* Not true, although it is a cause for circumspection: [From the Catechism:](http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/matri.html#CONSENT) > [@](#): > > Difference of confession between the spouses does not constitute an insurmountable obstacle for marriage, when they succeed in placing in common what they have received from their respective communities, and learn from each other the way in which each lives in fidelity to Christ. But the difficulties of mixed marriages must not be underestimated. They arise from the fact that the separation of Christians has not yet been overcome. The spouses risk experiencing the tragedy of Christian disunityeven in the heart of their own home. Disparity of cult can further aggravate these difficulties. Differences about faith and the very notion of marriage, but also different religious mentalities, can become sources of tension in marriage, especially as regards the education of children. The temptation to religious indifference can then arise. > > According to the law in force in the Latin Church, a mixed marriage needs for liceity the express permission of ecclesiastical authority. In case of disparity of cult an express dispensation from this impediment is required for the validity of the marriage. This permission or dispensation presupposes that both parties know and do not exclude the essential ends and properties of marriage and the obligations assumed by the Catholic party concerning the baptism and education of the children in the Catholic Church. > > Through ecumenical dialogue Christian communities in many regions have been able to put into effect a common pastoral practice for mixed marriages. Its task is to help such couples live out their particular situation in the light of faith, overcome the tensions between the couple’s obligations to each other and towards their ecclesial communities, and encourage the flowering of what is common to them in faith and respect for what separates them. Again, **nuffle** , don’t proceed with the assumption that religious folks all follow their religion out of fear of hell. Reread what **zev** said above. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/23 "2002-08-08T14:22:04Z")
**Jomo** , I think I addressed your “So what?” in my OP. If you went vegan for other reasons, though I cannot conceive of other compelling reasons to go vegan, than animal cruelty issues, then I don’t know what else to say. You are outside the scope of my understanding of vegans, of those who I have met. I am not disparaging a religion for tolerating the existence of other faiths, etc, but I am wondering how it is that someone who really believed these things could possibly be with someone who didn’t. I could never marry a person who insisted that water _really_ boiled at 99.8 degrees centigrade, and all the thermometers in the world were wrong. It just feels, to me, that it sort of trivializes my own thoughts and beliefs to just say, “Well, not everyone thinks that way. hidey-ho!” and carry on like it was no big deal. I mean, it is only unspeakable cruelty to other living creatures. It is only about the existence of your eternal soul. If anything is supposed to matter at all I would think those two would rank pretty high up there. I understand tolerance because there are very few things I absolutely believe in. But I have no tolerance (well, rather, very little) for different opinions on what I do believe in (that is, what I _know_). I mean, that is why I say I know them. “I know that Jesus Christ is my personal savior.” Could I comfortably live with and build a life with anyone who thought differently? It isn’t a matter of liking pepper more than salt, after all. It is about the eternity of your soul. “I know that all animal products are obtained by acts of cruelty.” This makes meat-eaters almost like lesser-cannibals. they relish in cruelty, and _live_ of it, literally! If I knew this was a fact, I could not share my bed with a meat eater. Perhaps I am not a christian because I mischaracterize the nature of religious knowledge? Am I totally wrong about why people become vegans in a general sense? ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/24 "2002-08-08T14:46:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by erislover \* > **I understand tolerance because there are very few things I absolutely believe in. But I have no tolerance (well, rather, very little) for different opinions on what I do believe in (that is, what I _know_). I mean, that is why I say I know them.** This is a tough one in general, not to mention in the context of your spouse. It would be hard to have any friends if they had to believe what I do; even Catholic friends may not follow the tenets of the Church. I believe that an absolute Truth exists and would exist regardless of what people think, and I believe that I believe in that Truth. How do I approach friends who don’t believe it, who don’t understand the idea that there is one Truth, etc. Without compromising my beliefs, I can engage in some dialogue and/or steer clear of the discussion. I won’t temper what I say out of some sense of being tolerant to others, but I don’t believe I hurt anyone either. I am just steadfast in what I express. This only becomes magnified in a relationship as close as marriage is and may become unbearable. There would have to be some sense that there is a common ground or respect for my beliefs so he would have to have similar ones or be questioning. An atheist who felt I was a superstitious delusional (not all would but I’ve seen some on these boards anyway) wouldn’t have an acceptable level of respect for me in any case. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/25 "2002-08-08T15:01:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* insensitivity level rising further: \*\* > Besides, if we aren’t supposed to eat people-- why are they made out of meat!? People have a tacit agreement with each other. I don’t eat you all, and none of you all eat me. 'Sides, kuru is a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/26 "2002-08-08T15:06:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rhapsody \* > \*\* > > I do not see these religions as being in conflict with each other. God already promised the jews heaven. Jesus is the path for non-jews. Neither is really in conflict with the other. \*\* I can think of several Christian groups who would disagree with you **Rhapsody**. The Southern Baptists have spent quite a bit of money trying to convert Jews. Historically, the Catholic church tried to get Jews to convert as well. If Jews are already promised heaven, why bother? As an aside, if the Jews are already promised heaven, does that mean that they can go out rob, rape, steal and kill and still have heaven, even without accepting Jesus? > [@](#): > > \*\* > There are of course differences in things such as someones adherence to being “kosher”, but they are things that could be compromised on fairly easily without doing any religious harm to either. \*\* Not really. If you _truly_ believe that God commanded you to only eat kosher, how can you compromise? What compromise can there be? > [@](#): > > \*\* > As for the children there would be no harm in allowing them equal exposure to each religion so that they can settle on what feels right to them. \*\* Actually, in the eyes of Judaism (and I would suspect most Christian denominations as well – if I’m wrong please correct me) there would be great harm. From the Jewish POV, one of the worst things a Jew can do is to convert to another religion. It is one of the three commandments for which we are commanded to allow ourselves to be killed rather than violate. As such, allowing children to be exposed to other religions for the purpose of possibly allowing them to follow that religion would constitute a great harm. I’m fairly certain that most ardent Christians would not want their children growing up without Jesus as their Saviour. Admittedly, I can’t state that with certainty (not being a Christian), but I’m fairly certain that this is the case. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Rhapsody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9de0a6/32.png) [@Rhapsody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhapsody)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/27 "2002-08-08T15:44:46Z")
> [@](#): > > As an aside, if the Jews are already promised heaven, does that mean that they can go out rob, rape, steal and kill and still have heaven, even without accepting Jesus? God has promised a place in heaven for “his people”. That does not mean though that just being of jewish origin wins you a place in heaven. Basically in the bible God lays out the rules for the jews and promises them that adherence to those rules will earn them a place in heaven. No such promise was made to the rest of us until Jesus came along. > [@](#): > > Not really. If you _truly_ believe that God commanded you to only eat kosher, how can you compromise? What compromise can there be? I am speaking of the couple compromising to make things work NOT compromising their religion. A christian is in no way made less a christian by also adhering to a kosher diet, nor by simply respecting the kosher wishes of one even if they themselves do not eat a kosher diet. > [@](#): > > From the Jewish POV, one of the worst things a Jew can do is to convert to another religion. It is one of the three commandments for which we are commanded to allow ourselves to be killed rather than violate. As such, allowing children to be exposed to other religions for the purpose of possibly allowing them to follow that religion would constitute a great harm. Knowledge is never a bad thing. If judaism is threatened by the simple knowledge of other religions then perhaps judaism needs to have its own “truths” re-examined. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/28 "2002-08-08T16:04:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rhapsody \* > \*\* > Knowledge is never a bad thing. If judaism is threatened by the simple knowledge of other religions then perhaps judaism needs to have its own “truths” re-examined. \*\* Knowledge can sometimes be a bad thing when we are dealing with children (which was the topic of converstion), who don’t have the maturity to fully understand it. I have a fair knowledge of Christianity and, as such, can reasonably compare and contrast it with Judaism. So, when someone makes the case to me that I should accept Jesus as my Saviour, I can rationally discuss with them (and argue) why I do not. My children, however, cannot do that. You can tell my five year old about Jesus, but she will not have the ability or maturity to understand _why_ Jews reject him, nor do I think I can rationally explain it to her in a way that she will understand at this point. Maybe when she’s a bit older. But until then, I see no need to confuse her by introducing her to other religions. Likewise, I’m sure you don’t see too many devout Christian parents telling thier kids to pick up copies of the Qur’an… Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![the\_great\_dalmuti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b2d939/32.png) [@the\_great\_dalmuti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_great_dalmuti)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/29 "2002-08-08T18:28:14Z")
I can easily see how your friend found himself in an argument with his vegan girlfriend. If they’re out on a date, and he orders something that contains animal products, she pops the question “do you respect me as a person?” Uh-oh. It’s all downhill from there. Myself, and most other vegans I know are vegan through and through. It’s a lifestyle choice, not necessarily just a diet choice. Personally, I can’t possibly imagine myself with anyone but another vegan. To me, if you choose to eat meat, it inherently reflects something in your personality and belief structure which is 100% incompatable with the way I see the world. To you it’s just a big, juicy porterhouse. To me, it’s a dead cow that lived a terrible life, it’s a plate of money that the meat industry can now use to further advertise its product to children, it’s a huge waste of food and energy (why didn’t you just east the original grain and soybeans, instead of filtering it through the cow first?), and it’s unacceptable. Is this intolerant? Sure. Is this intolerance necessarily a bad thing? Nope. As **erislover** put nicely, I’m merely living by my principles, and surely it’s not unreasonable for me to want to live a long, happy life with someone who shares the same principles. When my girlfriend and I met, all those years ago, we were both vegetarians. We just naturally started phasing out certain habits, and before we knew it, we were gung-ho vegans, and happier than ever. One last point. Thank you, **erislover** , for saying: _I eat meat because I like to eat meat, not because I have a principle which says I should eat meat. She doesn’t eat meat because she has a principle that she shouldn’t eat meat._ This is huge, common discourtesy that many people don’t afford to their vegetarian/vegan friends and acquaintances. Even if you weren’t religious, you wouldn’t attend a friend’s Catholic wedding wearing a baseball cap and a Slayer t-shirt. You wouldn’t give your Jewish friend a tinned ham for her birthday. Also, you wouldn’t necessarily bring a bottle of wine when your Quaker buddies invite you over for dinner. Why? I would assume because you respect them as a person, and therefore respect the fact that they have beliefs which they choose to live by. Now, imagine you’re on a date with a vegan. Don’t you think it would be polite to pass up the spare ribs and just order some cous cous . . . ? Best, TGD ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/30 "2002-08-08T18:45:19Z")
> [@](#): > > People have a tacit agreement with each other. I don’t eat you all, and none of you all eat me. If that’s your main reason for not eating people, I’m keeping you away from babies. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/31 "2002-08-09T12:26:29Z")
It isn’t so much a matter of tolerance or love as it is a matter of compatibility. If your values differ to greatly it will probably cause some friction in the relationship. Despite what some may say love does not conquer all and a long term relationship is about more then love. Vegans tend to have some pretty radical ideas about animal rights and what humans should eat. Can you imagine being a vegan married to a meat eater? You probably wouldn’t appreciate your spouse frying up some bacon in the kitchen. I mean imagine the smell, the mess, the poor pig that died, and not to mention kissing a mouth that has partaken of innocent flesh. (And I don’t mean that in a good way.) Let’s not forget how frustrated the spouse will get when it comes to dietary disagreements. Also, I think some of you really don’t know what tolerance is all about. Refusing to date someone or marry them because of philosophical differences is not intolerant. Marc ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/32 "2002-08-09T16:33:12Z")
**MGibson** , this is precisely the issue, however. My initial reaction was that she should just get over it and have some tolerance. But the more I think about it, the more it seems that, from the position she holds, there is no way to be tolerant. But I bring up the slavery issue not as a sly analogy but as a deliberate metaphor. Slavery, I think most agree, is inherently cruel. ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2002, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/33 "2002-08-10T03:59:01Z")
> [@](#): > > If I were zealously religous (say Catholic) I would be scared poopless every day about the prospect of burning in hell. \*I am not moved, my God, to love you, By the heaven you have promised me. Neither does Hell, so feared, move me To keep me from offending you… It is your love that moves me, and in such a way, That even if there were no heaven, I would love you, And even if there were no Hell, I would fear you… \* - St. Juan de la Cruz, 17th century Catholic saint and mystic. Loose translation of one of his poems. ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2002, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/34 "2002-08-10T04:02:23Z")
I’m a long-time vegetarian, not vegan, though tend toward that viewpoint more and more as I learn the specifics of modern day animal husbandry. I view factory farms as being unecessarily cruel to animals, and so vote with my mouth. I eat small amounts of dairy, and eggs & honey occasionally, and buy them from small (local if possible) producers who treat the animals with some respect. The slavery analogy is a good one, as the vegan perspective is that modern factory farming is an abuse of sentient beings, and abhorrent. This is a rather new idea in application of practice in human history, because it is easier to have that choice now, at least in the US. We ain’t a starving nation, and it’s pretty easy to find meat alternatives, with pre-packaged name brands even. It’s still a new idea, though, which many don’t understand. Not too long ago, 130 years, human slavery of African-Americans was an accepted practice in this country, and those racial misperceptions are still felt. It took awhile for for people to see that was not appropriate behavior, it was cruelty. Perhaps the levels of cruelty perceived by a society are determined by the ability to survive and prosper beyond the basic need of that cruelty. I think that we are at a point that we can flourish without causing unecessary harm to animals, who I see as being sentient beings deserving of kind treatment. As to the OP, kind treatment is my MO in relations with other folks. I was not raised as a vegetarian, but came to that after the same upbringing most Americans have had. Certainly had my fair share of pork chops, and remember that enjoyment. Don’t care for it much now, but do understand where it comes from. I reached a different conclusion about kind treatment to all creatures than is the norm, now, but by the same precepts of kindness, am not going to tear into another’s pholosophical jugular to satisfy my baser ego needs. I don’t need that kind of eating. Comparing vthe vegan principles to religious principles is apt , perhaps, in enthusiasm, but not in terms of long held practice. There is not a prophet, nor canon, for vegan protocol. It’s new and weird. Most vegans don’t have a church to back them up, so don’t have the grace of long term authority, nor the glamour of established pageantry, so have to rely on their arguement and belief. The beliefs are in the formative stages, so less likely to be understood by a partner of differing belief. So, then the frustration beween a couple who differ in that regard, as opposed to a couple who differ in respects to established religions, would be more intense because of a floundering of established community support, to my mind. And then, there’s the basic issue of going to the store everyday. For me, if I were to the point of discovering another through love, I’d hope they’d understand my heartfelt beliefs, and I’d abide by theirs as well: talk long into the night, and try best to understand that, whatever goes down the gullet. Hopes this helps your understanding **erislover** \*\*erislover[/B ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/35 "2002-08-12T11:15:43Z")
**erislover** , your ideas about what a vegan should or should not think are highly restricting, overly theoretical, and presuming too much. You have no idea what makes me tick and you’re not doing a very good job of guessing. I’m vegan for a combination of a variety of reasons, and one of them is to reduce cruelty to animals. Others include my own personal health, the impact on the environment, and the fact that I just plain like vegan food best of all. If I were unmarried and thinking about marriage, I would prefer a vegetarian wife, that would be something to take into consideration. But your “theory” forgot to allow for the possibility of a person decided to go vegan after being married for years already. What do you expect me to do, dump her for cooking chicken once in a while? I already said we’re in love. _Amor vincit omnia_. You tried to oversimplify and forgot to take all the complex, messy details of real human life into account. So your theory is excessively reductionistic. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/36 "2002-08-12T13:20:18Z")
Well, sorry for wonding, **Jomo**. Next time I’ll be sure to not investigate any matters for fear that I might find out some new information on how people with vastly different ideas about behavior can live with each other. My deepest, most sarcastic apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/37 "2002-08-13T00:32:46Z")
**erislover** , you asked for information and I chipped in. Your response was to cast doubt on my contribution based on your preconceptions. If you were looking for information, you might have adjusted your theory to account for my experience. But it looked more as though you were only looking for data that would support your theory. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/38 "2002-08-13T11:08:58Z")
Tolerance, to an adult, is a learned thing. To a child, it is natural. I feel that to be with a Vegan, one must be tolerant of their wishes… but in the same respect, the Vegan must be tolerant of my love of a steak done up rare with crispy fat… Mmmmmm… However, more and more I see less of that happening. People are so caught up in proving that they’re right, that they forget about the person they are dealing with. I respect all people, if they respect me. This isn’t easy, as some pretty sad people have shown me respect… and though it may be hard, I try to be tolerant of who they are and what they believe. In the end, tolerance is also a personal thing. One can only be so tolerant, IMHO. If I find something abhorant, I will say so, in time, and I will not be tolerant of it. The trick is that I find very VERY few things intolerable. Maybe that’s the trick, just not to be so hung up on things. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/39 "2002-08-13T16:45:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tristan \* > \*\*Tolerance, to an adult, is a learned thing. To a child, it is natural. > \*\* Actually, I would think children are generally intolerant, in the sense that they are much more obvious about their perceptions of differentness. A group of homogenous children naturally picks on the different one among them. Respect is instilled and over time people grow out of the immaturity of focusing on “weirdnesses”. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640/40 "2002-08-14T06:42:25Z")
gigi- I disagree. Observing my children interacting with other children has shown me that children (at least mine, and those I’ve seen them play with) may be aware of differences, but don’t make a big deal out of it. Then again, it’s an age thing… my daughter is six, and will play with ANYBODY. She could care less if the child was black, green, or paisley. One arm? No problem… she just won’t play catch. But later, I’m wondering if I will see that change as she spends more time away from us and more time with her friends in school. We’ll see. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-matter-of-belief-and-principles-reasonable-tolerance-vegans/122640.md?page=3)