Psychiatry is more like law than medicine, as far as I’m concerned. If you are in the DSM, you’re sick, not the other way around, and you can be prescribed drugs or locked up. It’s rather frightening.
Sorry, I couldn’t resist coming back on this one.
Answer: noone - you can’t draw on rainbows!
“incognuity” should be a word!
I am not surprised at the figure, it is just that many people with any kind of mental illness have trouble with coming forward with it - probably because people like Asmodean think that to have a mental illness you are insane. Of course it is all in the definition, conditions like manic depression and clinical depression are mental illnesses and do not make a person ‘insane’. People who don’t really understand these issues like to label, it happens.
Let me be the first to come forward and say that I do take medication for clinical depression , no one who knows me knows or would believe this because firstly it is a very personal thing and secondly as a society we don’t have a great understanding or sympathy with such illnesses, it is no less distressing or debilitating at times than a physical illness, it is just less widely acknowleged.
Anyway, I don’t think there is an epidemic, but I do believe that there are a lot of people who suffer from some kind of mental illness, call it a product of society, everyone has their own ways with dealing with life. Just because you can’t see it doesnt mean it isn’t happening.
That’s just my 2 cents
“Expecting the world to treat you fairly because you are a good person is like expecting a bull not to attack you because you are a vegetarian.” Dennis Wholey
I’ve never liked the idea of mental illness because it permits the definition of “illness” and “dysfunction” by appeal to the present condition of the society. If you fit into the society, you’re not sick; if you don’t, you’re not well. That’s not medicine, that’s conformism and political repression. Something’s a disease if it causes pain. And I don’t mean the pain of being rejected because you’re different.
Just a reply to matt_mcl. Apart from being terribly condescending “and I don’t mean the pain of being rejected for being different”, I just think you are not very well informed.
According to you something like Alzheimers, another progressive brain illnesses is not valid as it’s main effects are not pain but memory loss, inability to think and understand. Mental illnessess are also a biochemical imbalance in the brain combined with other risk factors. I will only comment on what I know most about Clinical Depression. People experience depression in their lives, but “one type of depression -clinical or major depression-is unique. This depression has a defined set of signs and symptoms” But of course according to matt, these symptons mean nothing. You seem to have the view that anyone with a mental illness is not a functioning part of society and is a sad excuse for a human being. In my own experience function as a very able person to the outside world, have a good job, good grades in my studies, medication helps with all of this. I do not have any such pain of rejection which you so snidely put it. I have experienced pain, sometimes the illness is debilitating, and just because it does not manifest itself in a physical form, does not mean that it is any less important. How dare you decide that what you can’t see is not important.
I suggest you read some literature about mental illnesses and stop relying on old prejudices for your opinions.
IMO, one of the biggest problems is that we don’t teach children that depression is a normal part of life. Instead, you’re either well which means “quit yer whining”, or you’re mentally ill which means “go see a doc and maybe gets some meds”.
As with physical medicine, I think we should have a subtle blending between what’s normal (i.e. can be self-treated) and what requires medical attention. For example, children could be taught that when they’re feeling sad, they should talk to parents and friends, get some exercise, etc. And, like any other illness, if they’re doing what they can but it’s not going away, they should seek professional advice.
Why kid ourselves? We’re all going to feel majorly down (and maybe even suicidal) at some point in our lives. Depression is like the chickenpox. Some vulnerable people may need a lot of help getting through it, but that doesn’t make it abnormal or mean that you should ignore it in the rest of the population.
The 1 in 4 statistic is probably very correct.
Just because one has a mental illness does not mean that one is dysfunctional or a raving lunatic, though it probably does affect how one faces life situations.
Most people see any form of mental illness as something to be afraid of, a stigma that they do not want and just the hint of having such an illness brings up the past images of all of those horror stories concerning maniacs slavering and howling as they rip out entrails and careen along the abysmal halls of sadistic institutions.
Today, especially, it beings up the images of dirty, filth soaked empty eyed street people picking through garbage, talking to unseen beings, attacking passerby’s for no reason and pushing shopping carts full of trash.
Not so. Mental illness has been with us for ages. Look at Douglas MacAuthure, he had a major ego problem that affected his judgment and eventually led to his being dismissed from the military. Patton, had a problem with accepting the potential for human weakness and an over blown ego which eventually got him in much political trouble.
Lets examine corporate raiders, whose major purpose in life is to go in and destroy the lives of thousands of people for money. Major ego problem there, displaced value system, lack of empathy or compassion.
How about the men almost everyone knows, likable, hard working, who seem to attract women like a magnet and have absolutely no problem with repeatedly cheating on those they say they love, but who become enraged when they get cheated on?
There is the woman, pretty, attractive, popular, who careens through relationships because she lies all of the time.
The chronic complainer at work. No matter what one does for him or her, he or she has to complain constantly about almost everything.
The shy person, who blends into the background and can be lonely in a crowd.
Most alcoholics and most chronic drug abusers. (Alcoholism is linked to genetics, BUT, 85% have various forms of emotional/mental illness.)
Animal abusers. Ever known the redneck who owns savage dogs and treats them badly, likes to kick or kill cats or gets annoyed rather than concerned when one of his dogs die?
The school bully. Most bullies are not just acting ‘normally’ aggressive.
The man or woman who always seems to put tremendous effort into something, yet almost always fails for various reasons, time and time again. Then the person we’ve all known who seems to actually set themselves up to fail or be fired. (You’ve got to have known one of those guys who gets fired frequently and blames everyone else for it, but not himself.)
Mental/emotional illness does not always mean that the person is completely dysfunctional. Nor does it always mean things like schizophrenia, mental retardation, psychosis or overtly bazaar behavior. We’ve all known that neighbor who bitches at everyone about everything going on in the area and gets outraged to the point of fury if you step one inch onto their property.
See all of those popular romance books out? Ever know a girl whose main reading was nothing but them? She was always reading a romance novel? That’s an emotional illness indicating that she is not being fulfilled emotionally either because her standards are too high or too unrealistic. (Reading romance novels is fine, but when it becomes nothing but such novels, that is a good indicator of a problem. Hear that guys? Are your women building book shelves of nothing but romance books?)
So, mental/emotional illness comes in many forms and is a lot more common than people think. It’s just that unless it makes the person dysfunctional, treatment is not necessary.
CAREFUL! We don’t want to learn from this!(Calvin and Hobbs)
A few years ago, my husband started acting a little weird. He said he “didn’t feel good,” but then I noticed that he “didn’t feel good” all the time. He didn’t talk much about it, and I put it down to stress (we’d just had our first child, and it was a major adjustment). Then I noticed that it seemed to be more and more of a struggle for him to want to get out & play his guitar. He’s a musician, that’s what he does. His guitar is as much a part of his body as his arms. I knew then that there was a real problem.
I gently suggested to him that maybe there was something more wrong than just stress, and perhaps he’d be interested in talking to a counselor, through the EAP program I have at work. He started to cry. He didn’t want to admit that there was a problem, but he knew that he just couldn’t avoid the issue any more. I hooked him up with a counselor. The counselor believed that he might be helped by some sort of anti-depressant, so she referred him to a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist agreed with the counselor, and they started a combination of “talking therapy” and Prozac.
Within about 2 weeks, I noticed a change. He seemed calmer, and much more capable of dealing with the stress of just living. He started to get enjoyment from his guitar again. He eventually got back to his old self, got off the meds & the counseling, and things are going well now.
The psychiatrist told my husband that he was clinically depressed. Looking at my husband’s family history, it appears to run in his family, although my husband is the only one that’s actually done something to try & fix the situation. While my husband is not on any meds now, the psychiatrist told him not to be surprised if it strikes him again.
Clinical depression can strike anyone, really, and depression is classified as a “mental illness.” But “mental illness” has this stigma still attatched to it. Once the stigma is lost, that one-in-four figure will look like exactly what it is: realistic.
Cristi, Slayer of Peeps
I made my husband join a bridge club. He jumps next Tuesday.
(title & sig courtesy of UncleBeer and WallyM7!)
These are all examples of why psychology is looked at by many with such disdain. On the one hand, you have people with real, clinical mental illnesses that deserve help and respect. On the other hand there is a certain segment of society that tries to make every single character flaw into a “disease” or “condition”. There will always be people trying to wiggle out of accepting responsibility for their choices, and the tactic of trying to do so under the guise of pop psych diagnoses cheapens the sufferings of those who are truly suffering from mental illness.
But then again, what do I know? I read science fiction almost exclusively, so obviously that means I am emotionally disconnected with reality. If the above examples are any indication of what constitutes mental illness we might as well pack up and go home. We’re ALL ill.
Cogito ergo sum…I think.
This makes me wonder if things like depression, or excessive egotisim, or cruelty to animals or any of the other things mentioned by Sentinal are not illnesses but instead just natural emotions and personality traits, then is it still all right to use medications to treat them. If Prozac makes somebody happier and more able to function, then why not take it even if what they’re suffering from is just due to stress and circumstance, not a real illness.
Excuse me, Gumby, I was diagnosed with autism, my best friend was diagnosed with attention-deficit disorder, another friend with paranoid schizophrenia, and my ex-boyfriend with obsessive-compulsive disorder, and I’ve spent a fair amount of time thinking and reading, thinking about, and discussing this issue, so I think I know whereof I speak at least as much as the other laypeople on this board.
Yes. Do you know how painful that is?
I’d be interested to know where you pick this up. No, it’s my opinion that the term ‘mentally ill’ is misapplied to a large number of people who but for the intervention and conformism of society would be, or, despite the same, are, functioning members of society. Therefore, the term should be applied not to those who are only different, but to those whose difference is, objectively speaking, a disease.
It is my opinion that my so-called ‘autism’, for example, is a difference (systemic, psychological - it doesn’t matter to me) in the way I function. I am perfectly capable of functioning as a sentient human being in this fashion; it is just that my method of functioning is outside the norms of society. Specifically, I keep my friends restricted to people I actually like, not acquaintances I get along with; I preferred as a child to read than play with others; I prefer to use a computer than to play sports; and my intelligence is and was tested to be above “normal” for my age. These differences so alarmed my parents, so conflicted with their stereotypical notions of what a human being is and does and what a child is and does, that they took me to a psychiatrist who confirmed their stereotype with the aegis of medical science and with the label Asperger’s syndrome autist. In other words, my difference, which was painful to nobody including myself except for the extent to which the prejudices of others gave me grief, was medicalized and I was made to feel defective.
Psychiatry is based on the dogma that there is one normal way for humans to be and that those who are not that way are therefore ill. This dogma is supported by no proof and therefore it should be considered a religion or a philosophy, not a science. Not that there’s anything wrong with religion or philosophy, except that in a civilized society we understand that it’s not nice to go around locking people up and injecting them with drugs on those bases.
Even though I feel you gave my posting short shrift, I will accept the possibility that I was insufficiently clear. Therefore, in accordance with what I’ve written, I cordially invite you to retract your remarks as to what you supposed my position to be and join me on this side of the debate.
Actually, the more I reread both my and your posts, the more I become convinced that you didn’t read mine.
I said:
You said I said:
I invite you even to show me how you got that mistaken belief from what I wrote.
If you say that anything that causes pain is a disease, and you include mental pain, then depression is indeed a disease, in your opinion. However, someone’s whose brain chemistry made them happily ride escalators 24 hours a day would not have a disease. Is this a correct statement of your position?
I beg to differ. You are perfectly aware that a wide range of behaviors are seen as normal, and not “ill”. Shyness, garrulousness, dislike of large crowds, fear of heights, etc, are all accepted as “normal” as long as they are not taken to overpowering extremes. There is not “one normal way” but there is a point in which a person is so abnormal that their functioning is impaired. You may have a point that “mentally ill” is misapplied in many circumstances, but sweeping and inaccurate claims about psychiatry in general do not help your argument.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorn is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that She is pink; logically, we know She is invisible because we can’t see Her.
By the way, you misunderstand my position on pain. A disease is something that causes pain, but a pain is not necessarily the sign of a disease, which is as true for grief as it is for a papercut.
Ok, you have me there. Maybe I should have said “one normal road which permits several possible ways to go down it, but step one foot off of it and here we come with the drugs.” This is an accurate statement of my perceptions as someone who stepped off the road and was branded an autist. Thank goddess my parents responded with nothing stronger than therapy.
I didn’t misunderstand, but I did state it poorly. I did not think you believed a papercut was a disease. However, I would still like to know if you would consider our round-the-clock escalator rider to be suffering from a disease. And if not, what would you call it? Simply “not normal”, but not anything we should try to treat as an illness?
FWIW, I am sorry about your misdiagnosis and the stress it must have put you through. However, in my experience, psychiatrists are not so quick to take anyone not “normal” and drug them. I was withdrawn as a child; my niece is very shy as well; her brother is quite hyper. Yet no one ever suggested psychiatry for any of us, and we even have a psychiatrist in our immediate family (the father of my niece and nephew, BTW), who certainly would have been called in if simply being not quite normal always meant you needed drugs to “fix” you.
It is Parkinson’s. Janet Reno also suffers from it.
Margot Kidder’s past problems are described at IMDB.com.
CAVEAT: I did notice a small error in that story, though:
None of the movies that featured Kidder were filmed in L. A. They were filmed in Britain, New York City and Canada. Perhaps the writer is referring to the TV show?
><DARWIN>
_L___L
He’s back!
Can the mental masturbating stop long enough for reality to set in?
[quote]
These are all examples of why psychology is looked at by many with such disdain. On the one hand, you have people with real, clinical mental illnesses that deserve help and respect. On the other hand there is a certain segment of society that tries to make every single character flaw into a “disease” or “condition.” There will always be people trying to wiggle out of accepting responsibility for their choices, and the tactic of trying to do so under the guise of pop psych diagnoses cheapens the sufferings of those who are truly suffering from mental illness.
But then again, what do I know? I read science fiction almost exclusively, so obviously that means I am emotionally disconnected with reality. If the above examples are any indication of what constitutes mental illness we might as well pack up and go home. We’re ALL ill.[/unquote]
Define character flaw?
When does a character flaw reach the level of mental illness?
FACT: Virtually every known serial killer has a history of being cruel towards animals as a child. FACT: Over 80% of the people imprisoned for deliberate murder who have histories of violence towards others also have a history of being cruel towards animals.
Personal observation: Anyone being deliberately cruel towards animals after a certain age will display aggressive tendencies towards others, a marked lack of compassion, tend to be a spouse beater and will more than likely have been a bully in school. Such people show a higher than normal tendency to be divorced multiple times and to accumulate a record of arrests for assault ranging from simple to felonious.
There are few ‘pop’ diagnosis being made by professionals these days because of the ability to sue the psychiatrist. Humans, mostly, tend to accumulate in ‘herds’, being basically social animals. Humans often have the herd instinct when it comes to believing things – look at the popularity of the often lying National Inquirer and the frequent distortion of news reports. There will always be a certain amount of friction among the members of the human herd, but there are those who will stand out as basically abnormal.
There are levels of abnormality. There are the leaders, the movers, the shakers, the educators, the artists, dreamers, schemers and protectors. On the opposite end of the spectrum, ignoring everything else in-between, there are those who just do not fit in, those who withdraw from society, those who seem to fight it. (See my previous examples.)
As I stated unless a mental illness becomes a problem and affects a persons life style, it probably does not need treatment. The neighborhood bitch probably was raised by sullen, nasty parents who might not have beaten her but treated her with little affection and consideration. (This was QUITE common in the 1800s, especially among European immigrants where FATHER was king, lord and master and his say was law. It grew even more complicated if the family was of a very strict religious belief.)
Such a person, growing up, would find themselves emotionally damaged, but to them, it would seem normal. They would also see most others in a suspicious light, comparing them with their own feelings and personal experiences. (Humans have a tendency to often think that all others think like they do.) Until the 40s, sexual problems were quite common among women because they had been taught that sex was a duty and not a pleasure. All forms of sexual hang-ups blossomed then, which, in the early 1900s, allowed it to be acceptable for the husband to make use of a house of prostitutes to take his pleasure because the wife often did not want to be bothered.
The 60s plus Masters and Johnson helped change that. Essentially a ‘traditional’ belief turned into a moral practice which began to clash with normal biological and psychological sexual urges and created quite stunning psyco-sexual hang-ups which affected entire lives.
Alzheimer’s is NOT a simple mental disorder. It is an organic brain syndrome because the actual problem is physical. Basic senility, due to hardening of the arteries, is not a simple mental disorder because it is due to organic conditions. Any mental problem caused by a physical injury to the brain is a whole different ball game, folks.
That sweet, hot little number you met in the bar last night and screwed your brains out, but in the morning was more reserved, if not hostile and obviously not your type after all could be suffering form more than just a hangover. She could be suffering from a schizoid personality or even a form of schizophrenia and even a form of depression.
What about that guy at work who is always kinda quiet, doesn’t join in the usual sports chatter, is reserved around girls and you consider boring or a wimp but who gets the job done and often comes up with good ideas? He could be suffering from an insecurity complex because he did not fight in school and learned to keep quiet or get his ass beat. He could be smarter than all of you, but his insecurities will prevent him from succeeding at more than a base level.
Ever been with someone out partying and having a good time and suddenly that person is weeping, crying, wailing about how they are no good or talking gibberish, maybe even talking about suicide? There’s a very good possibility that they have suppressed unresolved conflicts and might be suffering from a disorder.
Ever meet a clean freak? Everything HAS to be clean? He or she will seem to be constantly cleaning things nearly all of the time? Washes his or her hands a lot? You might have an obsessive compulsive there.
I got news for you, bub, there is a real thin line between acceptable irregular behavior and psychiatric disorders. If you deny the 1 in 4 too hard, then you have probably some form of suppressed fear of being termed crazy. Read all of the science fiction you want, there’s nothing wrong with that. However, check out the later Heinlein books, like the Cat Who Walked Through Walls or Time Enough For Love and observe the open encouragement of incest by the author. Plus, notice in most of his books how all of the female characters who are primary ones are always buxom, super smart, glib, caring, and very, very sexual.
If you want to check out some insecurities, a sense of warped self-image, projected hostilities and a desire to be Godlike, read the last few books of Ron L. Hubbard science fiction writer and creator of Dianatic’s and the goofy religion to go along with it.
Then examine the list of movie stars who believe in his crap and notice how all have had image and ego problems through their career.
Shall I go on? Many, many a psychiatrist and psychologist will see people who come to them believing that they have problems and after an evaluation, discover that what they have is minor and requires little if any therapy. Many are discharged after only one session!
What dirty little secrets are you hiding deep within you that you’ve told no one that affect your judgment today? What rotten thing happened to you as a kid that affects how you look at some stuff today? What are you afraid of? Closed rooms? Crowds? Dark, deep water? Elevators? Flying? People who wear wing tips? People in lab coats? The smell of a doctors office? The sight of your own blood? Grim guys in business suits in positions of power in your company? That little lizard on the window sill?
Now, why, or do you even know why?
All forms of emotional illness. There is a difference between the emotionally and the mentally ill.
CAREFUL! We don’t want to learn from this!(Calvin and Hobbs)
To matt_mcl. I apologise for what was apparently a misinterpretation about your post, perhaps I am a little too sensitive about the issue, but I am not sure that you expressed yourself clearly enough for me NOT to take it the wrong way.
In all events I should not have attacked you.
[quote]
Many, many a psychiatrist and psychologist will see people who come to them believing that they have problems and after an evaluation, discover that what they have is minor and requires little if any therapy. Many are discharged after only one session![/unquote]
Um … many, many of their health insurance companies won’t pay for mental health treatment. I’m not saying you’re wrong, Sentinel, because I think that you are correct for many cases, but the fact of the matter is that it’s very hard to get health insurers to pay for any kind of long-term (more than a dozen or so sessions) treatment.
This is the thing, Gaudere. It probably wasn’t a misdiagnosis. Whatever could be said for Dr. Corcoran, she probably wasn’t a liar. By the standards of psychiatry I probably am autistic. My argument is that that category is set up not to specify a disorder, but a deviancy - something which is socially, not systemically, out of order. And social categories ought to have no pretentions to the scientific mantle.
I don’t care if it is caused by brain-chemical imbalance. Lots of things may be caused by brain-chemical imbalances. They ought only to be diseases if they are destructive. And the only destruction or dysfunction my ‘autism’ ever caused me was that which was inflicted on me due to social prejudice and psychiatric normativism.