Yep, all good.
Well, naturally, I almost completely disagree with you. I certainly disagree with ALL of the reasons why you rant against the complainers.
Basically, you see it entirely from the perspective of the band members. You see the bands’ fans, as being passive customers, who should just accept what is being shoved at them, and not have an opinion about whether they like the changes. I don’t see my role as a fan of art, as an entirely passive one, and I especially don’t think that I suddenly lose all rights to enjoy or dislike something, just because I buy a single song copy or go to a few concerts or whatever.
Don’t misunderstand, I’m fully in favor of artists or anyone else, carrying on with their lives however they want or need to. But we’re all EQUAL here.
Here’s a potential simile for you: imagine that you fall in love, and marry someone. A few years later, they decide to have a sex change operation. Are you obligated to stay with them and continue to have sex with them, because they “deserve to live the life they wish to”?
Another consideration: lots of artists, bands especially, are not sold only for the music they come up with. They are sold as a DREAM. As a magic coalition of unique people who came together serendipitously to make something that transported their fans to a sense of wonder. Once you’ve sold a band as being THESE PARTICULAR GUYS, it’s a bit ingenuous to switch some of them out, and expect everyone to go along 1984 Doublethink style, and pretend that THIS configuration is equally magically delicious as the ones you sold them on originally.
I submit in retort, that the real reason why you have the opinion that you do, is because you HAVE NOT fallen in love with any of the bands you talk about. The reason why you don’t care that they changed lineups and carried on, is because you weren’t invested in any way in the original lineup. If you ever DID find a group that had a uniquely pleasing sound, such that changing any member put an end to what you loved about them, then you would see the other side of this.
Basically, the band always own their sound. The fans, however, always own their VISION of the band.
It’s one thing to change personnel; it’s something else entirely when the change in personnel ramps up inter-band feuds so history is literally rewritten. Styx, for example. Dennis DeYoung was sick and couldn’t go on tour, so the band replaced him. Then they started taking his mane out of band histories and other members began claiming their responsibility for the band’s hit songs. The band is OK now, but without DeYong’s voice, keyboard skills, and writing, it’s just not the same.
Not too crazy when Mike Di Salvo stepped in as Cryptopsy vocalist. I’m sure most readers here will appreciate the fact that he was just too hardcore and not metal enough, hence his exit.
I poo-poo those who think Pink Floyd went downhill after Barrett’s absence or the Stones after Brian Jones’s.
Despite the The Mob Rules being one of my top five Sabbath tunes, I’ll take Ozzy over Dio at the mic any day.
After floundering for about a year on their own without a bassist, the Shaggs really got their groove going when sister Rachel finally took up the bass chores.
By the way, thanks for correcting my misstatement to John Deacon without busting my chops. Poor guy wrote Another One Bites the Dust and I blow his name.
Sometimes replacing a band member can have unexpected effects.
For example: Dream Theater. One of my favorite bands of all time, due in no small part to what I call “musicgasms” – tiny bits of melody or rhythm that make me go, “Ooh! Touch me there again!” On their early albums, their music is filled with those moments. Same goes for their side projects Transatlantic and Liquid Tension Experiment.
Then, Mike Portnoy left. And suddenly – well, those “musicgasms” I spoke of are GONE. There’s a couple scattered about on their first album with the new drummer, but on the following two albums, there’s none whatsoever. What’s interesting is that on the surface, their music hasn’t changed at all – even Mike Mangini is essentially a Portnoy clone. But the thing that I found so engaging about the band in the beginning, simply isn’t there anymore.
And then there is that hillbilly Tommy Shaw. Open mocks the music he helped create with Styx when he was playing with Nugent, then, I’m guessing the money got tight, and jumps right back into Styx to play that very same music! :rolleyes:
What a dork!
Rush would be a great example of this. Aside from musical compatibility, those guys are a family. After Neil Peart’s family tragedies, Lee and Lifeson made it clear to the public that if Neil elected to hang it up, then Rush was over.
Honestly, I have a theory that hearing everybody say “Van Hagar”—the band never used that name—hurt Eddie’s ego and was a major contributing factor to the bad relationship that developed. Michael Anthony was (and is) always on good terms with Hagar. I also wonder how much fan vitriol against Hagar is the result of Hagar’s entry coinciding with Eddie’s decision to start playing keyboards so much. Hagar didn’t make him do that.
I freely confess that I see it from that perspective, as I am a lifelong musician myself, though not a professional, except for briefly in 2003-04. It’s related, I suppose, that I don’t mind my own performance being criticized for being “bad”, if I perform poorly (that’s “constructive” criticism), but I despise audience members who complain that my band doesn’t play the song exactly like the record (well no shit, the original band had six members, including a keyboardist and a horn player, and my band is a guitar-bass-drums power trio).
Perhaps not Van Halen in particular; VH falls into the “I’ve enjoyed everything I’ve heard from them, but not so much that I ran out and bought their records” category. That includes their output with either singer. I like their output with Roth just as much as I like their output with Hagar. Truthfully, I have heard far more of Roth’s VH stuff than I have Hagar’s VH stuff. I will submit that my opinion in this matter is likely influenced by my perceptions of each singer’s work outside of VH. Roth’s immediately-post-VH solo output just sounded like more of the same to me, and his attempt at “bluegrass” just made me go, “WTF?” Meanwhile, Hagar, both pre- and post-VH, has been in demand to perform with the top players in the industry and manages to consistently put out a quality product (I freaking love Chickenfoot). I also saw the stylistic change in VH’s music after Sammy joined as a good and natural evolution in the band’s style.
AC/DC: I turned 14 the same year Back in Black came out, but was already becoming a fan of hard rock and heavy metal, and I was effectively exposed to Bon Scott and Brian Johnson at the same time. The band’s stuff with Bon was already widely played on the local hard rock station, and I heard it just as much as I heard the stuff from Back in Black. After all, Bon’s songs weren’t really “old” yet. I liked all of it … but as I became more exposed to a variety of music, I came to enjoy Johnson’s work more. That doesn’t mean I like Bon’s songs less than I did before - I liked them just as much as I ever did. I just came to the opinion that Johnson’s vocals were “better”, or at least “more to my liking”. It’s Johnson’s songs I choose to sing when I do karaoke, even though Bon’s songs would be a lot easier.
Nightwish is a completely different story. My first exposure to this band happened during the tenure of their second singer, Annette Olzen. I thought they sounded like a great band, but I thought that the vocals didn’t quite fit what they were doing. I could tell that Annette was a fine singer, and I couldn’t really criticize her beyond, “maybe she’s not the best fit for this band”. And I wasn’t inspired to buy the band’s music. Then somebody linked me to the Ghost Love Score performance (which I shared above), and I found myself absolutely gobsmacked by Floor Jansen’s performance. I had never been so impressed with any singer. I already liked the band, but Floor completely sold me. I started exploring more of their back catalog, and I own several of their albums, including all three of the frontwomen they’ve had. In the studio, all three sound good to me, and I love the music in every incarnation. But live … in the GLS video, see that shit-eating grin on the guitarist’s face as Floor hits those final notes? Hear the audience chanting, “FLOOR! FLOOR! FLOOR! FLOOR! FLOOR!” afterward?
I went back and did some “research”, watching older videos of live performances with the two previous singers. And somebody had helpfully compiled a video of live performances of Ghost Love Score by all three singers. The song was written specifically for the original frontwoman, Tarja Turunen (who had, and still has, a lovely, incredible voice), to sing. But Tarja liked to leave the stage and let a recorded vocal track finish out the song for her. Her replacement, Annette, simply could not sing the song. She gave it her best, but she was just not up to it. Floor joined the band, took that song, and completely owned it. Look at the guitarist as Floor sings right to the end of the song, with all that power: He is overjoyed! Look at that audience. Given the timing of that concert, I suspect that most of the audience had become fans when Tarja was the singer, and had bought their tickets expecting to hear Annette sing. And then they get Floor instead … and they’re in love with her. Everybody is smiling, except for the ones who are weeping from emotional overload, and everybody is chanting her name.
And I go to YouTube, and the comments on every Nightwish video devolve into a huge argument over which singer is/was better.
I suspect my problem is that I just look at music in a completely different way from most people. I think I judge individual performances on their own merit and avoid emotional judgments. This could be related to the (subjective) “fact” that I am a strong prose writer but, while I have a love for great poetry and great songwriting, I am a terrible poet/songwriter.
Too bad I didn’t catch their final R-40 Tour ('15)
yeah I was cool with John Rutsey’s replacement.
And some would say Journey became a different band when Steve Perry replaced Gregg Rolie as lead vocalist. Maybe they should have changed names then. It works both ways.
Since Gossow wasn’t the original vocalist, that’s hardly an issue. Johan Liiva sang on their first few albums.
There are people who complain about Brian Johnson? And I get that Van Halen essentially became a different band when Sammy Hagar replaced David Lee Roth, but they weren’t bad. They still pumped out #1 albums.
Aye, but nobody bought those. 
I keed; I keed!
IMO, Miss Gossow’s presence was quite a novelty back in 2000 and was a huge PR draw, thus most fans of the band discovered them during her tenure are vocalist. That and simplicity were my reasons for only listing her and not Mr. Liiva. Well, that and I had just read an article about how Miss Gossow was possibly starting a new band, so she and Arch Enemy were in my head.
Well, Peart did announce his retirement in 2015, and Lee has hemmed and hawed about it ever since. You’re certainly right that Rush isn’t going on tour with a replacement drummer, though.
[quote=“Mister_Rik, post:11, topic:789667”]
Then you’ll love this:
Ghost Love Score in Buenos Aires
She joined Nightwish in the middle of their 2012 world tour, after Annette’s departure. At the time of the linked performance, I think she had only been in the band for a couple months. After the tour, they made her a full member of the band (along with Troy Donockley, the pipes player).
I loved it. Whether she’s better than Tarja would be personal opinion, but I think she’s clearly a better fit for the band than Annette.
BTW does anyone know how she got her name? Floor is a very unusual name, especially since her sister has a more ordinary name of Irene.
I would never criticize Steve Morse, but I just don’t dig Purple without Ritchie.
Speaking of Blackmore, Rainbow has had more than a few lineup changes over the years. I really like his new vocalist Ronnie Romero.
Many Dutch names are weird. Joost, Guus, Aart, etc. “Floor” is Dutch for flower.
I read an interview where Joe Lyn Turner criticized the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame for not inducting Steve Morse with the rest of Deep Purple, even though he’s been in the band longer than Ritchie Blackmore was. He had a point, but seriously, how many people even know who Steve Morse is?
…and it’s not quite pronounced like the thing you stand on.
With Floor, it isn’t just “the voice”, I think. It’s the total package of what she brings to the band. As I said, I think Tarja is a wonderful, amazing singer who was perfect, musically, for Nightwish. I can’t and won’t criticize her talent or skill at all, because she was exceptional at what she did. It’s just that (IMO) Floor has everything Tarja had, and then more on top of that. Primarily, where Tarja sang pretty much everything in a pure “classical” style, Floor can do that just as well, but can also scream and growl and sing in just about any style depending on what fits the song, or a portion of the song. And there seems to be a joy in Floor’s performances that I didn’t see in Tarja’s.
So, yes, I admit that I’m a Floor fanboy. But I can join in on a Nightwish discussion without dissing her predecessors. And I don’t diss Annette, she is a fine singer; her “problem” was more the band’s fault for not recognizing that she wasn’t the right fit before they hired her. If the reports/rumors I’ve read are true, they wanted Floor in the first place, but she wasn’t available at the time, so they just went with the best audition they got, and found a pretext to ditch Annette as soon as Floor became available. I’d criticize the rest of the band for that before I’d criticize Annette. I would like to think that if I had started out as a Tarja fan, I could enter those same discussions now without slamming Floor.