# A message to all atheists, unbelievers, and lukewarm christians **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 25, 2013, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164 "2013-08-25T23:56:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/281 "2013-09-02T05:36:07Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Just to put the OP at ease, know that I am already perfect, and there’s nothing that could be improved. Actually, as I understand it this means that you are the perfect sacrifice for everyone else’s sins. The reason why this is so is not at this point clear to me, but \*\*jesusguy \*\*assures me this is true. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/282 "2013-09-02T05:56:00Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Actually, as I understand it this means that you are the perfect sacrifice for everyone else’s sins. > > The reason why this is so is not at this point clear to me, but \*\*jesusguy \*\*assures me this is true. No worries. The Big Man has personally assured me that **jesusguy** is going straight to Hell. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/283 "2013-09-02T11:30:59Z")
> [@jesusguy](#): > > There’s no concrete proof of the existence of God. Also, God said those who believe in His son Jesus and also accept Him as their savior will have eternal life. He didn’t say those who find evidence that His son existed will have eternal life. There’s no concrete evidence of Jesus’ existence because proving His existence doesn’t get us to heaven, faith and repentance do. > > I’m pretty sure some know but not everyone knows the full message. Not everyone knows/or is taking it seriously(this topic is proof of this) that Jesus will be back very very soon and that only those who accept Him as their savior and repent for their sins will be raptured. Everyone else will be left behind and will be in for worst time unparalleled to any time in history. > > I’m not forcing, I’m informing. Also, the moment we die, we stand before God and from there we go to heaven or to hell. No one can say they didn’t know when God questions them because they’ve been informed. > > Pretty sure I explained it earlier but Jesus was perfect and without sin. He was a perfect sacrifice for the atonement of our sins. He had to die as part of God’s plan for the redemption/restoration of humanity’s relationship with Him. And like I’ve said before, everyone who accepts Jesus as their savior and repents for their sins are righteous in God’s eyes and have a restored relationship with him. Everyone who hasn’t needs to because if we die as unrepentant sinners and without accepting jesus as our savior, we’re going to hell. > > I don’t know and I don’t have all the answers but what I do say is that if we need something I don’t see why it’s a problem to ask God for it before He gives it to us. I refer you to Matt 7:7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.” It may not be a problem, but it should be unnecessary to ask. If God says yes, great, If God says No, then it is no different to pray to a carrot or a stone. The quotes were from another human, not God or a God, we just take the Human’s word for it! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/284 "2013-09-02T11:38:55Z")
> [@jesusguy](#): > > You make a very good point. All I can say to you or anyone else is that if you really want to be convinced, step out in faith and pray to God about it. Ask Him to show you what the right path really is and He will. I think that a of Atheists have already prayed etc. and since nothing happened they saw they were praying in vain! I think it is ego that makes people think one has all the answers. As I stated many times it can be proven that the Bible was written by many different humans and it is their mind that decided what God was like. Then they realized it was not of God but another human no different than themselves! ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/285 "2013-09-02T12:34:55Z")
> [@jesusguy](#): > > If they haven’t been informed then I don’t know what to say about that. But you guys have been informed so now you know. You don’t have an excuse when you stand before God as soon as you die. Like I said, why is this a good thing? Doesn’t seem like you’re helping at all. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/286 "2013-09-02T14:25:05Z")
> [@jesusguy](#): > > If they haven’t been informed then I don’t know what to say about that. But you guys have been informed so now you know. You don’t have an excuse when you stand before God as soon as you die. Do we stand before God as soon as we die? I thought the bible said that we would sleep in the grave until Judgement Day. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/287 "2013-09-02T14:36:07Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > Do we stand before God as soon as we die? I thought the bible said that we would sleep in the grave until Judgement Day. Depends on which infallible Bible you read. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/288 "2013-09-02T22:11:28Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I think that a of Atheists have already prayed etc. and since nothing happened they saw they were praying in vain! I think it is ego that makes people think one has all the answers. . . . It always amazes me when religionists claim that atheists have never actually tried prayer. Of course we (a great many of us) have. As you note, nothing happened. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/289 "2013-09-03T00:04:58Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It always amazes me when religionists claim that atheists have never actually tried prayer. Of course we (a great many of us) have. As you note, nothing happened. Doesn’t matter if atheists have tried prayer or not - there are plenty of ‘faithful’ people out there who presumably have more than a ‘mustard seeds’ worth of faith - praying constantly - praying to cure cancer, praying to stop the next hurricane, praying that thier team wins… For all those prayers, nothing has yet come to pass\* - let alone getting a mountain to move or a mulberry bush to drown itself. \*except for half the folks at any given sporting event ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/290 "2013-09-03T00:10:57Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Depends on which infallible Bible you read. Well, which one is the infalliblest? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/291 "2013-09-03T04:49:10Z")
First we hear that atheists have this sort of Oedipal issue, that bad feelings toward a biological (or even adoptive) father lead to bad feelings toward a heavenly father, and so a failed family relationship leads into rejection of the divine. :rolleyes: Then we hear this crap about trying prayer and being disappointed with the lack of results – as if praying to a thing that we do not believe exists in he first place makes the vaguest lick of sense. :rolleyes: I was raised to believe in jehovallah, so one day, when I was about 8 or 9, I prayed for wisdom, in the vein of that solomon dude. Now I am pretty confident that jehovallah is a phantasm. So I guess my prayer for wisdom worked. :dubious: :smack: Or something. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/292 "2013-09-03T05:11:07Z")
> [@For You](#): > > . . . Then we hear this crap about trying prayer and being disappointed with the lack of results – as if praying to a thing that we do not believe exists in he first place makes the vaguest lick of sense. . . . Don’t be foolish. The point is that the failure of prayer is why many people of faith became atheists. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/293 "2013-09-03T05:58:55Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Don’t be foolish. The point is that the failure of prayer is why many people of faith became atheists. Indeed. For me that was a big one. Realising, after years of daily prayers, that you never actually get an answer. Not even a simple “Hello”. You’re just praying away at a void. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/294 "2013-09-03T06:05:20Z")
Then, one day, you decide to stop talking to the wall, and see what happens. Which is of course; _nothing_. No change at all. No angry God, no increase in bad luck or anything. Then I realised there is indeed really nothing out there, the doubts were right. Immensely liberating. ---
**Author:** ![GrizzRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ba0ec/32.png) [@GrizzRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrizzRich)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/295 "2013-09-05T17:11:31Z")
we’re nearly 300 posts into this thread… has ANYONE’S mind been changed? Hands?! ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/296 "2013-09-05T21:57:36Z")
> [@GrizzRich](#): > > we’re nearly 300 posts into this thread… has ANYONE’S mind been changed? > > Hands?! Yes, Hans has changed his mind. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/297 "2013-09-05T22:43:27Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Yes, Hans has changed his mind. But Franz still wants to PUMP YOU UP! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/298 "2013-09-06T09:38:02Z")
> [@jesusguy](#): > > If they haven’t been informed then I don’t know what to say about that. But you guys have been informed so now you know. You don’t have an excuse when you stand before God as soon as you die. This says a lot about your motivation for starting this thread. When you say things like the above you make it clear that it’s not about helping people; it’s about telling people that you’re right, they’re wrong and if they don’t listen to you God’s going to get them real good. It’s a petty malicious outlook cloaked in smug self-righteousness and protected by a torrent of tortuously-interpreted Bible verses, which converts no one and leaves us with the impression that either God is spiteful, capricious and cruel or that Christians are. And as neither option is likely to sway anyone in your favor, we’re once again forced to the conclusion that that’s not what you’re here for. There’s a famous (probably apocryphal) quote about a missionary speaking to an “Eskimo” that you may know: Eskimo: ‘If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?’ Priest: ‘No, not if you did not know.’ Eskimo: ‘Then why did you tell me?’ If we were unaware of “the Truth” your approach would actively endanger our souls, so it’s clear you’re not talking to us for our benefit. Is this some sort of spiritual Amway scheme, where you gain treasures in heaven for converting X number of people who then must also convert X number of people? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/299 "2013-09-06T11:47:00Z")
“The gods of the Disc have never bothered much about judging the souls of the dead, and so people only go to hell if that’s where they believe, in their deepest heart, that they deserve to go. Which they won’t do if they don’t know about it. This explains why it is so important to shoot missionaries on sight.” -T. Pratchett, _Eric_ ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164/300 "2013-09-06T11:50:12Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > If we were unaware of “the Truth” your approach would actively endanger our souls, so it’s clear you’re not talking to us for our benefit. Is this some sort of spiritual Amway scheme, where you gain treasures in heaven for converting X number of people who then must also convert X number of people? Remind me not to put on that video tape the missionaries sent me the other day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-all-atheists-unbelievers-and-lukewarm-christians/667164.md?page=16)