# A message to Kirkland1244 from a lying sack of shit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 23, 2002, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313 "2002-11-23T05:16:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/1 "2002-11-23T05:16:23Z")
It’s apparent that there are fundamentalists who have caused you great harm, but you are being rather unnecessarily combative in the process. First, you take it upon yourself to declare that Baptists, non-denominational Protestants and Messianic Jews are [not Christian](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2617790#post2617790). Then you advocate the [incapacitation](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2624217#post2624217) of fundamentalists and call them lying sacks of shit. What do you make of [these](http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=14712) [articles](http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=14690) about good deeds done by Southern Baptists, and this just in the past week? What of the good deeds that never make the news but are done every day by Christian fundamentalists? Adherence to something like the Southern Baptist [statement](http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp#i) doesn’t make one worthy of incapacitation. (Vehement disagreement, certainly, but not incapacitation.) A few bad fundamentalists does not mean that all are worthy of derision or beating. ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/2 "2002-11-23T05:50:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lel \* > It’s apparent that there are fundamentalists who have caused you great harm, but you are being rather unnecessarily combative in the process. You know what, when these bastards do to you what they’ve done to me, what my best “friend” did to me, when they say about you the things they say about me, when they strip away your civil rights, when they render you a second class citizen, when they reduce your life to nothing of value – then you can fucking talk to me about “unnecessarily combative.” > [@](#): > > First, you take it upon yourself to declare that Baptists, non-denominational Protestants and Messianic Jews are [not Christian](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2617790#post2617790). I did no such thing. I said that, in my opinion, they weren’t Christian organizations, but that was only my opinion, and not necessarily a fact. I did not assume the role of God and presume to declare “infallibly” that such was the case – as, I might add, many fucking fundamentalist have done to me in the past three or so years – repeatedly, and with glee. The only joy in a fundamentalist’s life is telling other people that they’re going to go to Hell. You didn’t see me say anything like that. Nor would you. > [@](#): > > Then you advocate the [incapacitation](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2624217#post2624217) I was speaking in regards to posting on a message board, clearly I was speaking figuratively, unless you know of some way to actually, physically harm someone over a keyboard. Hmmm? Didn’t think so. > [@](#): > > of fundamentalists and call them lying sacks of shit. Stand next to a fundamentalist while they talk about Catholicism, or Islam, or “liberals,” or homosexuality. All you will hear are lies. They are wallking lies. Their Gospel is a gospel of Lies (OSAS, the Rapture, the King Jimbo). They live to lie. > [@](#): > > What do you make of [these](http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=14712) [articles](http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=14690) about good deeds done by Southern Baptists, and this just in the past week? And Hitler did wonders for the German economy. Your point? Any website that proudly publishes articles by that fucktard Jerry Falwell is hardly a good example of “decent” Baptist behaviour. I don’t care what they do, they are still actors and agents for an organization that has made one of its goals keeping people like me second-class pseudo-citizens. Clearly, that’s fine by you. What a wonderful person you must be. You want to collaborate with the army of evil and defend the fucking Southern Baptist Convention, go ahead. I hope they turn on you one day. I hope they crush your spirit and soul. I hope they leave you so hurt and so self-loathing that you shatter every mirror in your apartment. Becaue that’s what you’ll deserve. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/3 "2002-11-23T07:29:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kirkland1244 \* > \*\*You know what, when these bastards do to you what they’ve done to me, what my best “friend” did to me, when they say about you the things they say about me, when they strip away your civil rights, when they render you a second class citizen, when they reduce your life to nothing of value – then you can fucking talk to me about “unnecessarily combative.” Your friend acted negatively toward you and some people think that there’s a problem with homosexuals. How does that make your life without value? > [@](#): > > I did no such thing. I said that, in my opinion, they weren’t Christian organizations, but that was only my opinion, and not necessarily a fact. I did not assume the role of God and presume to declare “infallibly” that such was the case – as, I might add, many fucking fundamentalist have done to me in the past three or so years – repeatedly, and with glee. The only joy in a fundamentalist’s life is telling other people that they’re going to go to Hell. You didn’t see me say anything like that. Nor would you. It’s still a common courtesy to leave the matter of who is or is not a Christian up to God, since He’s the only one that’s going to know anyway. As for people who enjoy telling others that they’ll go to hell, some of them would be happy tell fellow fundies how they’re going to hell. > [@](#): > > I was speaking in regards to posting on a message board, clearly I was speaking figuratively, unless you know of some way to actually, physically harm someone over a keyboard. Hmmm? Didn’t think so. No, but the thought is there, and people do happen to meet others offline. > [@](#): > > Stand next to a fundamentalist while they talk about Catholicism, or Islam, or “liberals,” or homosexuality. All you will hear are lies. They are wallking lies. Their Gospel is a gospel of Lies (OSAS, the Rapture, the King Jimbo). They live to lie. Disagree with them all you want. However, if they sincerely believe that they are spreading the truth, how then are they lying? You can say it is misguided, but how could it be lying? > [@](#): > > And Hitler did wonders for the German economy. Your point? > > Any website that proudly publishes articles by that fucktard Jerry Falwell is hardly a good example of “decent” Baptist behaviour. Maybe he has something positive to say spiritually. He tends to speak excessively about political issues, but maybe his spiritual guidance has value for some. > [@](#): > > I don’t care what they do, they are still actors and agents for an organization that has made one of its goals keeping people like me second-class pseudo-citizens. Clearly, that’s fine by you. What a wonderful person you must be. > > You want to collaborate with the army of evil and defend the fucking Southern Baptist Convention, go ahead. I hope they turn on you one day. I hope they crush your spirit and soul. I hope they leave you so hurt and so self-loathing that you shatter every mirror in your apartment. Becaue that’s what you’ll deserve. > > Kirk We can’t work to try to change those goals without hating them? As for the Southern Baptists, I’ve had an interesting relationship with that organization, although in my case I’d have to say that it’s been more positive than negative. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/4 "2002-11-23T07:29:30Z")
> [@](#): > > You know what, when these bastards do to you what they’ve done to me, what my best “friend” did to me, when they say about you the things they say about me, when they strip away your civil rights, when they render you a second class citizen, when they reduce your life to nothing of value – then you can fucking talk to me about “unnecessarily combative.” With all due respect, man… turn the other cheek. Seventy times seven, and all that. You’re using quite a broad brush, there. Sure, a lot of diehard Christians are assholes of the first order, but can’t you call 'em assholes on a case-by-case basis? ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/5 "2002-11-23T08:09:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lel \* > Your friend acted negatively toward you and some people think that there’s a problem with homosexuals. How does that make your life without value? I can’t be a public school teacher in some places. I can’t marry, anywhere. I can’t inherit property from my “partner,” shoudl I ever have one, without estate taxes. Same with being guaranteed to be able to visit said person in a hospital. I cannot be a Boy Scout leader, even though I’m an Eagle Scout. I cannot serve in the Navy. Or Army. Or Air Force. I can be arrested for having sex, in my own apartment, with a consenting adult. I am – and everyone else like me is – a second-class sub-citizen. And thanks to the efforts of the Southern Baptist Convention and their allies, including people who defend them – namely, people like you – that is unlikely to change for a long, long time. > [@](#): > > It’s still a common courtesy to leave the matter of who is or is not a Christian up to God, When they start doing that, I will. > [@](#): > > No, but the thought is there, and people do happen to meet others offline. The thought is not there. It is meant as a metaphor and nothing more. > [@](#): > > Disagree with them all you want. However, if they sincerely believe that they are spreading the truth, how then are they lying? You can say it is misguided, but how could it be lying? To spread a mistruth is to lie. These pieces of shit have all been told that they’re not telling the truth about gays, about Catholicism, about Islam, etc cetc etc. But they keep on fucking doing it. They keep lying, and lying and lying and lying. They are nothing but liars, mosters and bigots. That’s all they do. That’s all they are. > [@](#): > > Maybe he has something positive to say spiritually. Anyone who would listen to that beast for spiritaul guidance should be forceably sterilized. Falwell is one of the worst men in all of America. Anyone who gives him a voice, or gives his opinion credence is a collaborator with one of the must petulent and monstrous bigots we have encrusting our public life today. That you think he might have something of value to say says a lot about you. > [@](#): > > We can’t work to try to change those goals without hating them? Can’t we fight a war without killing people? What’s that? No. Well then. > [@](#): > > As for the Southern Baptists, I’ve had an interesting relationship with that organization, although in my case I’d have to say that it’s been more positive than negative. thank you so much, for whatever services or monies you provided to the SBC. Take heart in knowing you helped fund their campaign against me and every other innocent, slandered, scarred and broken gay person out there. Thank you so very fucking much. To help the SBC in anything is to wage direct war on gay people everywhere. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/6 "2002-11-23T08:10:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*With all due respect, man… turn the other cheek. Seventy times seven, and all that. You’re using quite a broad brush, there. Sure, a lot of diehard Christians are assholes of the first order, but can’t you call 'em assholes on a case-by-case basis? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/7 "2002-11-23T08:12:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*With all due respect, man… turn the other cheek. \*\* I have no more cheeks to turn. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/8 "2002-11-23T08:17:43Z")
**Kirk** , maybe _you_ don’t care about bringing those “lost souls” conservative christians who have hurt you over to our side, but some of us would rather not see the very fucking bridge we’re standing on burned just so you can vent a little. Get a fucking grip, dude. Learn how to argue well, not just scream and start a pissing contest. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/9 "2002-11-23T08:25:36Z")
**Kirk** is only interested in pissing contests. At least as far as certain subjects are concerned. There is really no point in engaging him. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/10 "2002-11-23T08:30:19Z")
_{sigh}_ Are we on about this again? Some days it’s just so hard to be a UU… ☹ Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/11 "2002-11-23T08:40:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dr. Lao \* > \*\ ***Kirk** is only interested in pissing contests. At least as far as certain subjects are concerned. There is really no point in engaging him. \*\* You of all people should be among those who knows that is absolute fucking bullshit. How long was I patient, did I try and try and try over at the Bigot Parlor, to explain Catholicism? How many times did I ask Michie to stop posting her virulently anti-gay rhetoric in the News Room, or whatever its called, before finally realizing it was all a waste of effort? That anyone who attends a Baptist church is too fucking stupid to understand things like Catholicism, or sexual orientation? I tried, and I was burned to the ground by those bastards, because I finally realized I was never going to get anywhere. And as soon as I wouldn’t run in a wheel in order to entertain them, they tossed me out. Well, they think they tossed me out. Whatever. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/12 "2002-11-23T08:41:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > **Kirk** , maybe _you_ don’t care about bringing those “lost souls” conservative christians who have hurt you over to our side, but some of us would rather not see the very fucking bridge we’re standing on burned just so you can vent a little. I care about my family, my friends and myself, in that order. Everyone and everything else can get bent. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/13 "2002-11-23T11:28:53Z")
Kirkland wrote: > [@](#): > > I can’t be a public school teacher in some places. I can’t marry, anywhere. I can’t inherit property from my “partner,” shoudl I ever have one, without estate taxes. Same with being guaranteed to be able to visit said person in a hospital. I cannot be a Boy Scout leader, even though I’m an Eagle Scout. I cannot serve in the Navy. Or Army. Or Air Force. I can be arrested for having sex, in my own apartment, with a consenting adult. Actually, none of that is really true. I presume that you’re already in a rage and tapping out a response to paint me as a bigot, but just in case you’re still listening, I want to say that I will (and do) fight for you and your rights. My “church” (actually, a gathering of Friends) welcomes you with open arms. Why don’t you get in there and fight with love, rather than hate. There is no substantive difference between you and His4Ever, except that she is nicer. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/14 "2002-11-23T11:33:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kirkland1244 \* > \*\*I care about my family, my friends and myself, in that order. Everyone and everything else can get bent. > > Kirk \*\* Oh, _no_, darling, you first. Trust me. You first. ---
**Author:** ![DAVEW0071](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19b73/32.png) [@DAVEW0071](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAVEW0071)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/15 "2002-11-23T13:04:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kirkland1244 \* > \*\*I care about my family, my friends and myself, in that order. Everyone and everything else can get bent. > > Kirk \*\* Real Christian values. I seem to remember loving those who hate you and blessing those who curse you to be ideals and behaviors encouraged by Christ himself. And that not tempered by circumstances or level of difficulty. But then, I’m a Baptist, so what do I know? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/16 "2002-11-23T13:08:36Z")
> [@](#): > > I have no more cheeks to turn. 'At’s a real shame. Truly. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/17 "2002-11-23T13:14:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kirkland1244 \* > \*\*I care about my family, my friends and myself, in that order. Everyone and everything else can get bent. > > Kirk \*\* (underlining mine) I hope you don’t consider that to be part of the Gospel message as proclaimed though the Catholic church? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/18 "2002-11-23T13:32:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kirkland1244 \* > \*\*You know what, when these bastards do to you what they’ve done to me, what my best “friend” did to me, when they say about you the things they say about me, when they strip away your civil rights, when they render you a second class citizen, when they reduce your life to nothing of value – then you can fucking talk to me about “unnecessarily combative.” \*\* Every single one, huh? Them and NOBODY else? So, because the odds approach 100% one gay guy _somewhere_ molested one little boy, I can call _all_ gay people “walking tumors” and that the world will be improved by leaving every gay man I meet incapacitated, broken and bleeding? :rolleyes: **Kirk** , you need to seek help. I don’t know and, frankly don’t want to hear about your past traumas 'cause I ain’t your mommy or your therapist and if they’re all that bad, a message board isn’t the place for 'em anyway, but if in real life you’re so scarred and hurt that you’re carrying around the level of quivering, foaming-at-the-mouth, voice cracking, psychotic anger you’re displaying here (and I’m not convinced that this isn’t just a put-on, but just in case…) we’re gonna read about you climbing up on a tower near a campus with a rifle one day. And _no-one_’s gonna say “Geeze! I knew **Kirk**. He seemed like such a quiet guy”, we’re going to say “Yeah, we all knew he was seconds away from snapping”. I wish I had a way to make you read your posts from the outside. Try substituting “gay” for fundimentalist maybe. And seriously…get some help. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![airdisc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e19adc/32.png) [@airdisc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/airdisc)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/19 "2002-11-23T14:29:33Z")
My friend had this to say about Kirk: “He is like a pecan, as like a pecan, Kirkland is both a fruit and a nut.” Just wanted to share. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313/20 "2002-11-23T14:47:08Z")
> [@](#): > > ## uote: > > ## I can’t be a public school teacher in some places. I can’t marry, anywhere. I can’t inherit property from my “partner,” shoudl I ever have one, without estate taxes. Same with being guaranteed to be able to visit said person in a hospital. I cannot be a Boy Scout leader, even though I’m an Eagle Scout. I cannot serve in the Navy. Or Army. Or Air Force. I can be arrested for having sex, in my own apartment, with a consenting adult. > > Actually, none of that is really true. Actually, it is true. Gay people have no rights of inheritance, gay people are not classed as family by hospitals and can be banned from their lovers’ bedside by his family, gay men are not welcome in the Boy Scouts, openly gay people cannot serve in any branch of the military, and yes, gay men have been arrested in their own apartments for having sex (see Hardwick vs. Bowers, 1986, and a case in Texas just this year.) On the other hand, I really, really, really, wish **Kirk** would shut the fuck up. It doesn’t help the credibilty of the pro-gay folks to have as an ally a raving loony shrieking at the top of his lungs in .every. single. post. For all the animus you direct at the fundies (who I loathe as much as you do), you are rapidly becoming their Exhibit Number 1: This is What Homosexuality Does To People. Your constant barrage of insults and hysterics only aids them in their twisted depictions of how gay people think and behave. Don’t help the fundies. There are times when a short, sharp “Fuck You” to one’s enemies is the best retort (Jah knows I do it enough), but if you say nothing BUT fuck you, people will quickly tune you out. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-message-to-kirkland1244-from-a-lying-sack-of-shit/138313.md?page=2)