# A minor Star Wars nitpick **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 30, 2008, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016 "2008-11-30T03:41:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![johnspartan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@johnspartan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnspartan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/81 "2008-12-01T17:54:40Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Why not use the X-Wings, and their torpedos, against the Imperial Walkers? I know an X-Wing is probably tougher to fly in atmosphere but my hey, they were just sitting around waiting for the pilots to abandon the snowspeeders. > > Of course, if you have the snowspeeders do the attacking, that makes for a new line of toys. That’s kind of like asking why the Allies didn’t use the amphibious stuff in the Battle of Dunkirk. The rebels were _primarily_ trying to get the hell out of there, and the X-Wings were better suited (and indeed the only things they had) for getting pilots out of Dodge. The resistance effort against the AT-ATs was mostly to try and buy a little time for the retreat. They knew they weren’t able to STOP the invasion, that’s why they started the evacuation at the same time as the counter-offensive. Resources to the counter-offensive were also probably minimal because fighting those forces was seen a near-suicide effort. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/82 "2008-12-01T19:40:16Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Maybe moving up a cliff trying to hump it back to base? I know nothing about mountain climbing, though. And yes, it was Wedge who took out the AT-AT. I just clean forgot about him and pasted in Luke. Tripping the AT-ATs was Luke’s idea, though. He passed it to Wedge when Dack to a bolt to the grill setting up for thier first attempt. Luke pulled the grapnel gun out of the cokpit of the snow speeder, so at least it was not something he was carrying around with him all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/83 "2008-12-01T20:50:43Z")
My question is, given that the Rebels seem to have pretty equal spaceship/fighter technology to the Empire, the Rebels don’t have AT-AT armor or AT-AT-armor-piercing technology. I mean, if the AT-AT armor is basically indestructible, then either slap some on a speeder and send it out to fight the AT-ATs or build a little pillbox on the defensive line. (Or just put some armor in front of the base doors and send taunting radio messages to the AT-ATs). If the AT-ATs have strong enough guns to defeat an armored door, then why don’t the Rebels have similar guns? I mean, they have an ion cannon that can easily defeat a BattleCruiser but they can’t knock out a frikken’ tank? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/84 "2008-12-01T21:12:20Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Actually, this is all stupid ret-conning. > > They had Luke moving around in the x-wing because it was convenient to the story to have him do so. In the first movie, it was convenient to have the line about the TIE fighter because it made for a good way to emphasize the situation that was building, as the heros slowly come to the realization that the Death Star is a really, really big thing. > > It’s highly doubtful that there was an intent to discriminate between the X-wing and the TIE fighter at the time. Fortunately, if you will, the discrepancy wasn’t something that couldn’t be retroactively explained. :dubious: In the specific case of the Rebel and Imperial fighters, though, it sure does look like they meant to have the X-Wings (which aren’t ever called that in the movie, but are later) be very diistinct from the TIE Fighters right from the very beginning. They’re much bigger than TIEs, slower and less maneuverable, have visibly large engines, more armament, are equipped with shields, have onboard life support systems, can fly in an atmosphere, and are sufficiently complex that they load astromech droids onto them for some reason. Obi-Wan specifically distinguishes a TIE fighter as “A short range fighter,” suggesting there are, in fact, long range fighters. None of this is retconning; you learn all this before the end of “Star Wars.” Given that the X-wing’s ability to achieve interstellar travel is established less than halfway into “The Empire Strikes Back,” I say it’s clearly established very early on that the X-Wing is quite the spacecraft. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/85 "2008-12-01T21:23:39Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > I mean, if the AT-AT armor is basically indestructible, then either slap some on a speeder and send it out to fight the AT-ATs or build a little pillbox on the defensive line. (Or just put some armor in front of the base doors and send taunting radio messages to the AT-ATs). You assume that the speeder could carry the weight of said armour. And armouring the door isn’t going to help unless you can armour the generator first, because if the ion cannon and theatre shield go down, the fleet of dedicated orbital bombardment vessels above you are going to blast that door to slag. > [@](#): > > If the AT-ATs have strong enough guns to defeat an armored door, then why don’t the Rebels have similar guns? I mean, they have an ion cannon that can easily defeat a BattleCruiser but they can’t knock out a frikken’ tank? They have _one_ ion cannon, that they only fire when they drop the theatre shield, so it doesn’t even have competition for the base’s generating capacity. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/86 "2008-12-01T21:34:58Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > None of this is retconning; you learn all this before the end of “Star Wars.” I think I’m with you on all of that but one: > [@](#): > > are equipped with shields I just watched Episode IV yesterday, so it’s pretty fresh in my mind, and I don’t remember any talk of shields. Can you tell me where that’s discussed? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/87 "2008-12-01T21:41:23Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > [This Wikipedia page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wunderwaffe) might be a good place to start. Where does it say that the Nazis did it because they thought it was cool? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/88 "2008-12-01T21:52:57Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > My question is, given that the Rebels seem to have pretty equal spaceship/fighter technology to the Empire, the Rebels don’t have AT-AT armor or AT-AT-armor-piercing technology. I mean, if the AT-AT armor is basically indestructible, then either slap some on a speeder and send it out to fight the AT-ATs or build a little pillbox on the defensive line. (Or just put some armor in front of the base doors and send taunting radio messages to the AT-ATs). > If the AT-ATs have strong enough guns to defeat an armored door, then why don’t the Rebels have similar guns? I mean, they have an ion cannon that can easily defeat a BattleCruiser but they can’t knock out a frikken’ tank? Why is a Black Hawk helicopter or a Humvee not armored like an M-1 tank? Why don’t the Iraqis just slap M-1 tank armor on their crappy Russian tanks? If they slapped AT-AT armor on a speeder, it would move as slow as an AT-AT and need legs or wheels because it would be too heavy to fly or float or whatever. To quote Rumsfeld, “you go to war with the Army you have, not the one you want.” It sounds idiotic if you are the ones deciding when to go to war, but for the Rebels, they are stuck with whatever crappy guns they had on Hoth when the Imperials landed. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/89 "2008-12-01T21:54:47Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > I just watched Episode IV yesterday, so it’s pretty fresh in my mind, and I don’t remember any talk of shields. Can you tell me where that’s discussed? Paraphrased during the Death Star fight: “All shields double-front.” Later: “The guns, they’ve stopped!” “Put your rear deflectors on.” Granted, I don’t think any mention was made of TIEs not having shields, so that distinction might not have been drawn. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/90 "2008-12-01T21:57:06Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > “All shields double-front.” > > “Put your rear deflectors on.” :smack: There we go. Brain’s working again now. Oy. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/91 "2008-12-02T03:03:42Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I agree it’s an oversight. Luke seems to zip around to various star systems in his X-wing without any problem. I think it’d be waaaaaaaaaay too long to be cooped up in that little cockpit without a bathroom break, even if he has a high-capacity diaper that NASA would envy. Maybe he _likes_ the smell of feet wrapped in leathery burnt bacon. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/92 "2008-12-02T05:01:11Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Oh yeah, it seems we’re all forgetting the [Robot Chicken explaination](http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a2505951d8bc25a011d9d95c3d0014b) as to why AT-ATs move so slow. 😃 Is it wrong that I was very proud when my 16 month old son started clapping and laughing about 40 seconds into t[his one](http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a2505951d8bc25a011d9d1f0c7300f7)? Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/93 "2008-12-02T05:06:44Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > Is it wrong that I was very proud when my 16 month old son started clapping and laughing about 40 seconds into t[his one](http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a2505951d8bc25a011d9d1f0c7300f7)? > > Jonathan Ha, I don’t let my daughter watch Robot Chicken, but she loves Star Wars. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/94 "2008-12-02T15:18:06Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Paraphrased during the Death Star fight: > > “All shields double-front.” > > Later: > > “The guns, they’ve stopped!” > “Put your rear deflectors on.” > > Granted, I don’t think any mention was made of TIEs not having shields, so that distinction might not have been drawn. You got really used to all that when playing the _X-Wing_ and _TIE Fighter_ computer games. It was interesting messing with the shield balance and power distribution. IIRC you could put power to the shields, engine, and weapons in any ratio you wanted. Really in the movies it didn’t seem like the X-Wings had shields, seemed like every hit resulted in damage. Maybe reduced damage though. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/95 "2008-12-02T15:54:11Z")
Another X-Wing shield reference from SW4 “stabilize your rear deflectors, watch for enemy fighters”. TIE fighters can fly in an atmosphere, they were tooling around Cloud City on Bespin. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/96 "2008-12-02T16:11:53Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > Is it wrong that I was very proud when my 16 month old son started clapping and laughing about 40 seconds into t[his one](http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a2505951d8bc25a011d9d1f0c7300f7)? > > Jonathan [Faather and sonnn…](http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a2505951d8bc25a011d9d1f0c7300f7) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/97 "2008-12-02T16:44:37Z")
Heh. Seeing those AT-ATs bounding along like beagle puppies made my day. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/98 "2008-12-02T17:16:28Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Really in the movies it didn’t seem like the X-Wings had shields, seemed like every hit resulted in damage. Maybe reduced damage though. If you watch when ships are getting shot at (the Falcon is a great example since it gets shot at so often) you’ll see laser blasts streaking toward it (or near it) and then kind of flashing out in a puff of yellow. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/99 "2008-12-02T17:41:37Z")
> [@Jolly\_Roger](#): > > there are too many ridiculous looking aliens that are added just for the “its cool” factor. Watching the movie the other night I really had to suspend disbelief that so many of these odd looking creatures functioned in an atmosphere that can support humans. Some didn’t even have mouths, at least not as what we consider one…so why are they in a frakkin’ bar? > [@Grumman](#): > > They could be looking for pilots or clients. Or they abosrb liquid refreshment through their fingers. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016/100 "2008-12-02T17:54:07Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Or they abosrb liquid refreshment through their fingers. 😉 I can deal with it if I just shut my brain off. But it just bugs me in general. Farscape had its share of muppet-aliens, most were well done too. But one difference was that you got the idea that this alien was the member of a spacefaring race. Sometimes you’d see more than one of them. And they weren’t as over the top as some Star Wars aliens appear to be. Sure, SW is geared more for kids and its more fantasy than fiction in general, so its not too big of a deal. But when I see all kinds of wierdo aliens, most of them unique to each other it ruins the suspension of disbelief for me a little bit. I still can kind of enjoy the movies (I say kind of because the “prequels” were at least to me, mediocre. YMMV, thats just my opinion.) but as I said I have to just not think at all when watching them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-minor-star-wars-nitpick/475016.md?page=6)