# A misdemeanor for killing a bicyclist. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923 "2005-12-03T18:29:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/61 "2005-12-04T19:35:58Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > **MacTech** , assuming you have driven for a few years been a driver for 15 years and have _NEVER_ caused an accident _or_ been pulled over for any moving violation > [@](#): > > let me ask you have you ever driven while being optionally distracted? **Ever change a CD** no, i have an iPod that i can use without taking my eyes off the road **eat** only when parked **look for something in the car** if it’s outside my visual range (i.e. not on the passenger seat) and cannot be identified by touch alone, it’s not important enough to distract me from my primary purpose of _DRIVING_ **look at a map** i pull over first **use a cell phone** only when the car is stopped and i’m parked on the side of the road when i’m behind the wheel it is my _primary_ responsibility to operate the vehicle in a safe and prudent manner, the object of driving is to arrive at your destination alive and in one piece, and _not_ to run over/collide with/etc other road users ---
**Author:** ![George\_Kaplin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@George\_Kaplin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/George_Kaplin)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/62 "2005-12-04T19:40:06Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Have you ever driven while distracted, even for a second? If so, turn in your license, because you can’t handle the responsibility of driving. It depends what you mean by ‘distracted’, I suppose. Sure, I’ve been momentarily distracted while driving. Just today I was driving back from the gym and happened to notice a friend of mine walking the other way. For about a quarter of a second, I was not fully focussed on the road. Stuff like that happens routinely to every driver as it is impossible to maintain 100% total concentration on anything for long stretches of time. However, there is a difference, when apportioning responsibility for mishaps behind the wheel, between the kind of momentary distraction which happens every day and prolonged engagement in activities that are actually _distracting_. I have _never_, not once _ever_, done anything anywhere _near_ so mind bogglingly stupid and dangerous as the clueless dumbfuck driver in the OP. If, through some traumatic head injury, my personality changed to the point where I would even _consider_ texting while driving, I should have my license should permanently revoked. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Or, is it only people who have had their mistakes turn tragically wrong that have proven their irresponsibility? Well, I don’t know about _tragically_ wrong, but irresponsibility behind the wheel can only really be _proven_ in the eyes of the law through accidents and mishaps, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/63 "2005-12-04T19:46:54Z")
> [@MessyPaint](#): > > i do not disagree that his actions were very irresponsible, but i do agree with the punishment at charge. Accidents happen and this person is going to have to live with his actions for the rest of his life. Does this line bring to mind a line delivered by the teacher in “A Christmas Story”? Remember the protagonist’s response to it? I suspect the driver feels the same way. Imagining a lifetime of remorse from some goof who text messages while he drives is a BIT of a stretch. More likely he feels a certain glee. Got away with it, he did. > [@](#): > > The punishment is generally fair- because I feel that 95% of people are truly “good” at heart and would never do something like this on purpose- I think this is where our governments are coming from as well. I am hoping this kid is too. What if you had a heart attack in your vehicle and struck someone? I would not call you a murderer- and self punishment is far worse than any other. And having a heart attack is voluntary behavior like text messaging? WTF? > [@](#): > > Examples like this show how immature our society still is. We are far more interested in development of technology and are willing to clean up the messes we create by them later. Don’t you know, we are doomed? translation: Do you know what I blame this on the breakdown of? Society! ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/64 "2005-12-04T19:49:13Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > For a single accident that didn’t involve drugs of any sort Er, the fact that he chose to engage in such gross negligence while stone cold sober is an aggravating circumstance, not a mitigating one. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/65 "2005-12-04T19:51:36Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > More likely he feels a certain glee. Got away with it, he did. This is just disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/66 "2005-12-04T19:53:04Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > I can understand the desire to be angry here. Someone makes a mistake, and someone dies as a result of said mistake. He didn’t make a fucking MISTAKE! Making mistake is making a right turn when you should go straight. Making a mistake is not looking (just once) before changing lanes. Making a mistake is taking a curve a little too fast. Text messaging while driving is SERIOUSLY FUCKING STUPID ASSHOLE IDIOCY! It’s not at all in a category with the occasional lapse in attention that all drivers occasionally commit. I’m sorry, your language is so sloppy (I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt here) that it’s misleading. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/67 "2005-12-04T20:04:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Ever change a CD > no, i have an iPod that i can use without taking my eyes off the road You had that ipod for 15 years!?!?, I though the non-replaceable battery only lasts 18 months. Never any tapes either I guess. > [@](#): > > eat > only when parked If I beleive that, which I’m sorry I really don’t, what about drinking? > [@](#): > > look for something in the car > if it’s outside my visual range (i.e. not on the passenger seat) and cannot be identified by touch alone, it’s not important enough to distract me from my primary purpose of _DRIVING_ Answered like a true politician, I did ask you if getting the object was more important then driving, I asked if you EVER in 15 years did it? > [@](#): > > look at a map > i pull over first Um OK. > [@](#): > > use a cell phone > only when the car is stopped and i’m parked on the side of the road How do you arange it so people only call you when you have already pulled off the road? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/68 "2005-12-04T20:13:06Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > This is just disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself. I know who should feel ashamed of himself, and it’s not me. It’s that stupid kid. I’m just not sure he does, or will. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/69 "2005-12-04T20:48:13Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > I know who should feel ashamed of himself, and it’s not me. It’s that stupid kid. I’m just not sure he does, or will. Now you’re not sure? Two posts ago you said he most likely felt gleeful about it. Of course, you don’t know jack about him, and the articles are 2 paragraphs long, so I don’t know how you came to that conclusion. Not too long ago people were inventing your motivations behind some of your post topics. Suggesting that you posted in order to “get off” on peoples reactions, or other such nonsense. I thought that was crap, and I think suggesting this kid is “gleeful” over this situation is crap too. This kid should feel shitty, and should be ashamed, and maybe should be punished harder than he is. I’m just pissed that so many want to throw this kid under the next bus. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/70 "2005-12-04T20:51:19Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Answered like a true politician, I did ask you if getting the object was more important then driving, I asked if you EVER in 15 years did it? Hey, hey, no personal insults okay, them’s fightin’ words, don’t _EVER_ call me a politician, m’kay?, and to _answer_ your question, _NO_ the object is _not_ more important than driving > [@](#): > > How do you arange it so people only call you when you have already pulled off the road? simple, the phone is turned off unless _I_ need to use the bloody thing, if I _do_ need to use it, I pull over first, the cell phone is for _my_ use only, for emergencies, if people call me (which is rare, as only 3 people know my number anyway) and i’m driving, they can leave a message in the voicemail i hate phones, only have that one for emergencies ---
**Author:** ![MessyPaint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@MessyPaint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MessyPaint)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/71 "2005-12-04T21:18:49Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Does this line bring to mind a line delivered by the teacher in “A Christmas Story”? Remember the protagonist’s response to it? I suspect the driver feels the same way. Imagining a lifetime of remorse from some goof who text messages while he drives is a BIT of a stretch. More likely he feels a certain glee. Got away with it, he did. > > And having a heart attack is voluntary behavior like text messaging? WTF? > > translation: Do you know what I blame this on the breakdown of? Society! at least read through the conversation before criticizing a post that has been discussed quite thoroughly already, you are an example simply supporting the point that i am coming from, keep jumping into cold water… ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/72 "2005-12-04T22:07:18Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Look at two cases: > > One: A motorist is driving drunk. > Two: A motorist is driving while playing with his cell phone (in this case, text messaging). > > In neither case does the motorist intend to injure, let alone kill, anyone. Why, then, does the first case get a more severe penalty than the second in the event someone is actually killed? Doesn’t make sense to me either. Increasing penalties doesn’t seem to solve problems. What would cut down on drunk driving is increasing the probability of getting caught. But how to do this? Tie a breathalyzer to the ignition of every vehicle? IMO, it would greatly cut down on drunk driving if each and every time a driver started their vehicle after having had a couple too many, a cop was radioed and immediately stopped you and fined you $100. That would be better than how we do it now. By the time the average drunk driver finally gets pulled over - or worse gets in an accident - they’ve probably been drunk driving for years. Then they’re looking at jail time, loss of license, up to $10,000 in legal fees & fines, losing their job so they can’t pay the fines, community service, probation, counseling, etc, etc. And that only would solve the drunk driving problem. But far, far more fatalities occur as a result of nothing more than stupidity and incompetence. You’ve got your drivers who are too tired. Too angry. Too much cold medicine. Too distracted by something. Too stupid. Let’s face it. Most of us believe most drivers are stupid. At least stupider than we are. Which really means, we’re all stupid sometimes. The reason they’re called “accidents” is because, duh, they’re accidents. People usually don’t set out to kill each other with their vehicles. I think it’s time we faced a hard truth. Human beings are too stupid to pilot large, powerful, deadly vehicles. Let computers do the driving (at least within city limits), and let people still be able to go to the store, drive to work, while putting on their makeup, eating breakfast, tapping away on the laptop, text messaging, screaming at the kids, having a martini, sleeping, reading a book, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/73 "2005-12-05T03:14:30Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Now you’re not sure? Two posts ago you said he most likely felt gleeful about it. Of course, you don’t know jack about him, and the articles are 2 paragraphs long, so I don’t know how you came to that conclusion. I was responding directly to a poster who had just airily opined that “a lifetime of regret is punishment enough” (for KILLING someone). I was pointing out that it was just as likely the kid didn’t give a shit. As you say, we don’t know, therefore claims about his hypothetical guilt are absolutely fatuous when offered as a just punishment for killing someone. > [@](#): > > Not too long ago people were inventing your motivations behind some of your post topics. Suggesting that you posted in order to “get off” on peoples reactions, or other such nonsense. I thought that was crap, and I think suggesting this kid is “gleeful” over this situation is crap too. It’s certainly possible he feels gleeful. I think the “lifetime of remorse” stuff is absolute crap. > [@](#): > > This kid should feel shitty, and should be ashamed, and maybe should be punished harder than he is. I’m just pissed that so many want to throw this kid under the next bus. Yknow, this people who knew and cared about Sydney might just find your attitude a tad cavalier. “Sure, it’s terrible that Sydney was run over because an idiot kid was text messaging instead of watching the road, but we can’t go and INCONVENIENCE a YOUTH over a little thing like KILLING someone.” Does Sydney’s life count for NOTHING with you? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/74 "2005-12-05T03:56:48Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > How do you arange it so people only call you when you have already pulled off the road? Huh??? Are you aware you’ve the option of not answering a ringing phone??? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/75 "2005-12-05T12:34:01Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Yknow, this people who knew and cared about Sydney might just find your attitude a tad cavalier. “Sure, it’s terrible that Sydney was run over because an idiot kid was text messaging instead of watching the road, but we can’t go and INCONVENIENCE a YOUTH over a little thing like KILLING someone.” Does Sydney’s life count for NOTHING with you? We are not talking about an inconvenience. We are talking about a lifetime punishment for a 17 year old who screwed up while driving. Punishments ranging from going to jail for years and being a convicted felon upon release, which will largely tank any decent job opportunities for the kids entire life, or a lifetime ban on driving. Is it really necessary to punish this person for the remainder of their lives over this transgression? How does society benefit from that? As much as he’s been portrayed as a menace, he isn’t a serial rapist, or a violent thief, or an incorrigable murderer, he’s a kid who did something stupid while driving. If you’re looking to protect society, we need to make distracted driving punishable the way drunk driving is punishable. That means changing the law, not suddenly changing the punishment for this one event. If Colorado wants to protect its populace, it should ban cellphones while driving, and enforce it. That will do a hell of a lot more than making this kid a felon. If you want vengence, then there’s really no leniency argument to make, is there? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/76 "2005-12-05T12:46:40Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > We are not talking about an inconvenience. We are talking about a lifetime punishment for a 17 year old who screwed up while driving… He didn’t “screw up” HE KILLED ANOTHER HUMAN BEING! ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/77 "2005-12-05T13:06:27Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > He didn’t “screw up” > HE KILLED ANOTHER HUMAN BEING! Really? I didn’t realize that. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/78 "2005-12-05T13:56:44Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Is it really necessary to punish this person for the remainder of their lives over this transgression? How does society benefit from that? By sending the message to every other teen out there that if they kill someone by text messaging, they too will be punished severly. Whether something like that works or not is really asking a fundamental question about the penal system, but that basic argument seems to be lost on a lot of people in this thread. It’s not just about punishing this one kid. It’s about creating a sufficient deterrent for grossly negligent irresponsible brainless misuse of a vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/79 "2005-12-05T14:13:38Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Really? I didn’t realize that. :rolleyes: Well, when you seem more concerned about his future career prospects, than the person he killed, > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > …which will largely tank any decent job opportunities for the kids entire life… and minimize his killing someone by calling it a transgression, > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > …Is it really necessary to punish this person for the remainder of their lives over this transgression?.. and think that that transgression is less of a crime than property crimes that does not result in death, > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > …he isn’t…a violent thief… and further minimize his killing someone as just doing, > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > …something stupid… then YES, I do think you need to be reminded! ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923/80 "2005-12-05T14:15:56Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > By sending the message to every other teen out there that if they kill someone by text messaging, they too will be punished severly. > > Whether something like that works or not is really asking a fundamental question about the penal system, but that basic argument seems to be lost on a lot of people in this thread. Ain’t lost on me. But I think you will have a better chance of getting through by banning the use of cellphones while driving and hammering that point into young driver’s heads before giving them a license. In CO, where this happened, the rule is that you can’t use cells if you’re under 18. Which is fine, except it clearly tells teens that cellphone use is OK, if you’re of age. It also tells me that lawmakers looked at the cellphone issue and decided they were safe for most drivers. Instead of telling this teen that cellphones are dangerous and not to be used while driving, we tell him that they are fine, once an arbitrary date rolls around. So, the kid uses his phone, kills a guy, and we sit here telling him he should have known better. > [@](#): > > It’s not just about punishing this one kid. It’s about creating a sufficient deterrent for grossly negligent irresponsible brainless misuse of a vehicle. For some here, it sure seems to be about punishing the kid. If it’s about creating a deterrent, then create a deterrent, that’s what laws are for. Making one kid an example is a shit-ass way of showing that one shouldn’t use cellphones while driving. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-misdemeanor-for-killing-a-bicyclist/333923.md?page=5)